Vermeil on Surtain trade; "IT MAY BE OUT THE WINDOW" - Page 5

Bootlegged · 04-18-2005, 08:49 AM

Cornerback corners Chiefs

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star

In a perfect world, the Chiefs would have their cornerback by now. They would have signed Samari Rolle, traded for Patrick Surtain or otherwise landed a veteran corner.

Then the Chiefs would be free to concentrate on this weekend's draft in that context.

But Rolle signed instead with Baltimore, Surtain is still property of the Miami Dolphins, and the Chiefs are still without a burning defensive need.

As the minutes tick off the clock without the Chiefs and Dolphins completing a trade involving Surtain, the closer the Chiefs get to having to deal with their cornerback issue in the draft. Maybe they use their first-round pick on a corner like Auburn's Carlos Rogers or perhaps their second-rounder on a player like Virginia Tech's Eric Green.

Their draft could go many ways. It all hinges on whether they pull off the trade for Surtain.

“It may be out the window,” coach Dick Vermeil said of the trade. “There's not much talk about it right now. We're just preparing to draft the best football players we can draft. We're doing it without consideration for what else may happen.”Free-agency began early last month with the Chiefs holding big plans for improving at cornerback. Rolle, who played for Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham for three seasons in Tennessee, was among the first group of free-agent visitors.

If he fell through, the Chiefs wanted to meet with Ken Lucas and Fred Smoot. They had talked to the Dolphins about Surtain and were planning to meet with Ty Law.

The Chiefs started contract negotiations with Rolle and then backed off after learning of a spinal condition found during a routine physical exam. Lucas and Smoot signed with other teams before the Chiefs could bring them to Kansas City for a visit.

They met with Law, but his fractured foot was still mending, and with Kelly Herndon, but he signed with Seattle. The Chiefs appear to be getting nowhere in their trade talks with Miami.

So their cornerback search is more or less where it started. But the Chiefs are still determined to obtain a starter to pair with Eric Warfield. Dexter McCleon, for now at least, will be the nickel back.

“When we brought Dexter McCleon here, we really wanted him to be our nickel back and play inside because he's such a smart player,” Vermeil said. “That's what we'd like to do with him. We've got Eric Warfield. We've also got William Bartee and Julian Battle. So we already have good depth. But if we can add a high-quality player to that, either a free agent or a first-round pick, it's going to help.”

The Chiefs are almost certain to draft a cornerback in the first couple of rounds if they don't reach an agreement with the Dolphins on Surtain. If they do make the trade, it's much less of a sure thing.

If they get Surtain and then a cornerback on the first day of the draft, suddenly a weakness become a strength. Surtain would join Warfield in the starting lineup, McCleon is the nickel back, the rookie is the fourth corner, and either Bartee or Battle, or possibly both, is out of a job.

“If we sign a corner, that may not necessarily stop us from drafting a great corner if he's sitting there,” Vermeil said. “And we don't know who's going to be sitting there. I can't see why we'd alter the way we rank players and grade players based on having signed a free-agent corner. We've got to go about our business.”

The trouble with trading for Surtain is that he will cost the Chiefs a draft pick. The Dolphins are asking for a second-round selection.

If the Chiefs meet that price — which they've indicated they won't — they won't pick between the middle of the first round and the end of the third. That's a long time to wait for a team that has other positions it would like to address.

Foremost among them are linebacker, where the Chiefs have a severe shortage of healthy bodies, and wide receiver, where starters Eddie Kennison and Johnnie Morton are over 30.

Because of their inability to acquire a cornerback by now, the Chiefs might not be able to satisfy every position on their wish list in this draft.

FringeNC · 04-18-2005, 01:51 PM

So, if we do get Surtain, who's gonna blink? CP or Saban?

eazyb81 · 04-18-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

So, if we do get Surtain, who's gonna blink? CP or Saban?

I think CP will end up giving up the 2nd round pick Miami is looking for. I don't think he was serious about the 4th round pick, he was just using that as a starting point for negotiations. A 2nd round pick for a top 5 CB is well worth it in my opinion, and i'm sure CP feels the same way.

If CP is able to get Surtain for a 5th this year and a 2nd next year, it will be highway robbery.

crossbow · 04-18-2005, 02:25 PM

It's Vermiel's way of discouraging the fishing expeditions reporters try on coaches to get info they aren't supposed to have. Since Peterson's staff has been instructed not to comment on trade negosiations, he may be telling the press that it is a dead deal so they will give up on it and talk about the Chiefs great draft history in 2nd rounds or some other fascinating topic.

Mr. Laz · 04-18-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossbow

It's Vermiel's way of discouraging the fishing expeditions reporters try on coaches to get info they aren't supposed to have. Since Peterson's staff has been instructed not to comment on trade negosiations, he may be telling the press that it is a dead deal so they will give up on it and talk about the Chiefs great draft history in 2nd rounds or some other fascinating topic.

you give vermeil way too much credit

this is the guy who can't seem to keep his mouth shut about anything

why this time?

Mr. Laz · 04-18-2005, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralphy Boy

That is exactly what it means, you don't HAVE to give them a new contract.

you right, IF the whole reason for the guy getting traded wasn't a new contract in the first place.

with surtain it is ... you don't trade for him unless your planning on working out a new deal.

crossbow · 04-18-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

you give vermeil way too much credit

this is the guy who can't seem to keep his mouth shut about anything

why this time?

Becuase loose lips already cost them one targeted coner. I gotta at least hope they can learn from the Rolle fiasco.

Calcountry · 04-18-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I sure hope so....but as a Chief's fan, it wouldn't surprise me if DV is right....

Yep, DV never lies.

eazyb81 · 04-18-2005, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunnytrdr

Yep, DV never lies.

ChiefsCountry · 04-18-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

A 2nd round pick for a top 5 CB is well worth it in my opinion, and i'm sure CP feels the same way.

That is debatable. I mean TO got traded for a 2nd rounder. I still think a 4th and 3rd next year could get Surtain.

beer bacon · 04-18-2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

That is debatable. I mean TO got traded for a 2nd rounder. I still think a 4th and 3rd next year could get Surtain.

TO getting traded for 2nd != Surtain is not worth a 2nd.

**Bwana** · 04-18-2005, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowanian

If Vermeil or Carl use the words "good depth or Solid Corner" in regards to Bartee or Battle, again, when not talking about their replacements on roster...........I may be forced to drive to KC.

This is posturing to get Miami's price down..........

You and I both.

ChiefsCountry · 04-18-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beer bacon

TO getting traded for 2nd != Surtain is not worth a 2nd.

Thats my point.

Mr. Laz · 04-18-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossbow

Becuase loose lips already cost them one targeted coner. I gotta at least hope they can learn from the Rolle fiasco.

i can't figure out with is funnier

you believe that the chiefs actually learn from their mistakes

or

that you actually believe carl's bullchit that "the media cost the chiefs a chance to sign Rolle"

the chiefs unwillingness to pay Rolle the money he wanted cost the chiefs ... nothing else, sure as hell not the media.

Wile_E_Coyote · 04-18-2005, 03:24 PM

as long as DV has not picked him up at the airport, there is a chance

**The Bad Guy** · 04-18-2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Thats my point.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

The TO situation was because of his own paperwork problem and he whined and bitched to the league and they forced the 49ers, Eagles, Ravens to figure something out in terms of compensation.

Surtain is property of the Dolphins - he was never going to be a FA.

TO was worth a 2nd rounder to the 49ers because he already talked his way off the team. They didn't expect to get anything for him, and then the paperwork mishap happened, and they took the 2nd rounder from the Ravens - which didn't matter anyway because he ended up going basically for Brandon Whiting and a 5th round draft pick.

Comparing the 2 situations is ridiculous because there are too many other variables involved in the TO mess.

04-18-2005, 08:49 AM
Bootlegged One4Mahomes Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: f Casino cash: $9985545	Vermeil on Surtain trade; "IT MAY BE OUT THE WINDOW" Cornerback corners Chiefs By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star In a perfect world, the Chiefs would have their cornerback by now. They would have signed Samari Rolle, traded for Patrick Surtain or otherwise landed a veteran corner. Then the Chiefs would be free to concentrate on this weekend's draft in that context. But Rolle signed instead with Baltimore, Surtain is still property of the Miami Dolphins, and the Chiefs are still without a burning defensive need. As the minutes tick off the clock without the Chiefs and Dolphins completing a trade involving Surtain, the closer the Chiefs get to having to deal with their cornerback issue in the draft. Maybe they use their first-round pick on a corner like Auburn's Carlos Rogers or perhaps their second-rounder on a player like Virginia Tech's Eric Green. Their draft could go many ways. It all hinges on whether they pull off the trade for Surtain. “It may be out the window,” coach Dick Vermeil said of the trade. “There's not much talk about it right now. We're just preparing to draft the best football players we can draft. We're doing it without consideration for what else may happen.”Free-agency began early last month with the Chiefs holding big plans for improving at cornerback. Rolle, who played for Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham for three seasons in Tennessee, was among the first group of free-agent visitors. If he fell through, the Chiefs wanted to meet with Ken Lucas and Fred Smoot. They had talked to the Dolphins about Surtain and were planning to meet with Ty Law. The Chiefs started contract negotiations with Rolle and then backed off after learning of a spinal condition found during a routine physical exam. Lucas and Smoot signed with other teams before the Chiefs could bring them to Kansas City for a visit. They met with Law, but his fractured foot was still mending, and with Kelly Herndon, but he signed with Seattle. The Chiefs appear to be getting nowhere in their trade talks with Miami. So their cornerback search is more or less where it started. But the Chiefs are still determined to obtain a starter to pair with Eric Warfield. Dexter McCleon, for now at least, will be the nickel back. “When we brought Dexter McCleon here, we really wanted him to be our nickel back and play inside because he's such a smart player,” Vermeil said. “That's what we'd like to do with him. We've got Eric Warfield. We've also got William Bartee and Julian Battle. So we already have good depth. But if we can add a high-quality player to that, either a free agent or a first-round pick, it's going to help.” The Chiefs are almost certain to draft a cornerback in the first couple of rounds if they don't reach an agreement with the Dolphins on Surtain. If they do make the trade, it's much less of a sure thing. If they get Surtain and then a cornerback on the first day of the draft, suddenly a weakness become a strength. Surtain would join Warfield in the starting lineup, McCleon is the nickel back, the rookie is the fourth corner, and either Bartee or Battle, or possibly both, is out of a job. “If we sign a corner, that may not necessarily stop us from drafting a great corner if he's sitting there,” Vermeil said. “And we don't know who's going to be sitting there. I can't see why we'd alter the way we rank players and grade players based on having signed a free-agent corner. We've got to go about our business.” The trouble with trading for Surtain is that he will cost the Chiefs a draft pick. The Dolphins are asking for a second-round selection. If the Chiefs meet that price — which they've indicated they won't — they won't pick between the middle of the first round and the end of the third. That's a long time to wait for a team that has other positions it would like to address. Foremost among them are linebacker, where the Chiefs have a severe shortage of healthy bodies, and wide receiver, where starters Eddie Kennison and Johnnie Morton are over 30. Because of their inability to acquire a cornerback by now, the Chiefs might not be able to satisfy every position on their wish list in this draft.
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04-18-2005, 01:51 PM	#61
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $1846014	So, if we do get Surtain, who's gonna blink? CP or Saban?
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04-18-2005, 02:25 PM	#63
crossbow King of Sarcasm Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: at home Casino cash: $10004900	It's Vermiel's way of discouraging the fishing expeditions reporters try on coaches to get info they aren't supposed to have. Since Peterson's staff has been instructed not to comment on trade negosiations, he may be telling the press that it is a dead deal so they will give up on it and talk about the Chiefs great draft history in 2nd rounds or some other fascinating topic. __________________ If the mind were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't.
Posts: 2,159

04-18-2005, 03:24 PM	#74
Wile_E_Coyote avatar down for remodel Join Date: Jul 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	as long as DV has not picked him up at the airport, there is a chance
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