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Old 05-20-2018, 03:08 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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My Liberalism

I believe in the free market as the engine of a progressive society. A government that owns the means of production rather than allowing it to flourish and regulate it when necessary is a government that strangles innovation and therefore can uphold progression in our quality of life.

As such, I am a free market capitalist. My goal is to make life for everyone in society as promising as possible, and you squander that with any other economic model.

However capitalism is a competition, and it carries with it, for all its benefits, one indisputable downside: there will be some that do extremely well for themselves, most of us will do pretty well to well, and there will be some folks at the bottom of the economic ladder who do very poorly. You could put the fire of god into every working-age adult, but it won't matter, at the end of the day, not everybody can "win." A fair percentage will struggle, and I don't see any way that the free market can rectify that on its own.

As a result, I believe a social safety net is necessary for those who fall through the cracks of our capitalist society. Food stamps for those who are hungry. Section D housing for those that qualify. Unemployment for those looking for work. Medicaid for the poor. Medicare/social security for the elderly. Disability for those that cannot work. And there are other aspects to the net that I think should be added but for now that's a fair start.

The people who need and deserve this support cannot pay for it on its own, so I am a supporter of economic redistribution to support those in the social safety net. I believe it is humane as well as beneficial: for every dollar you put into food stamps, something like four dollars ends up getting pumped into the economy.

The government does have a regulatory role in economics, as well. Keep in mind, the goal is to make society a progressively better place for everyone at all economic levels. So while companies should remain privately owned and operated with maximum freedom of choice and contract, the government should ensure they are not gouging customers. The government should ensure that they are not producing products that risks our lives. The government should ensure that we are not globally altering the planet's climate at our peril. The government should ensure that companies pay their workers a living wage, that minorities' rights are protected, that women can take time off after giving birth. That contracts are honored. That employees are not fired and have their lives upended indiscriminately. That employees can band together if they wish and collectively debate their employers for what they consider fair treatment/compensation.

To my mind, that's the precarious, imperfect balance that liberalism strives for. Balancing the freedom of a progressive society while also managing the worst impulses of capitalism that has little incentive to care about the disadvantaged and tends to consolidate power in the hands of very few.

This is, I think, the "cocktail napkin" description of mainstream American liberalism. And I think that's a lot more reasonable that many in the conservative movement give it credit for.
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Old 05-20-2018, 04:29 PM   #16
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
It's your thread, how do not know what is being discussed?

It does not work at helping people.
That’s a ridiculously low bar (“helping people”) that the social safety net absolutely meets.

I assume you don’t know a single poor person who uses Medicaid for health insurance or anyone that lives in Section D housing who would likely be on the street. Or a student who uses pell grants to get an education.

Those folks are obviously helped.

So, not to put too fine a point on it, but you’re hilariously wrong.

Like, you could not be more wrong.
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Old 05-20-2018, 04:35 PM   #17
CoMoChief CoMoChief is offline
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IIRC, you've posted threads like this in the past. I don't think anyone really needs an explanation as to "why" you think the way you do.

You're a full blown socialist....we get it.
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Old 05-20-2018, 04:45 PM   #18
Raiderhader Raiderhader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
That’s a ridiculously low bar (“helping people”) that the social safety net absolutely meets.

I assume you don’t know a single poor person who uses Medicaid for health insurance or anyone that lives in Section D housing who would likely be on the street. Or a student who uses pell grants to get an education.

Those folks are obviously helped.

So, not to put too fine a point on it, but you’re hilariously wrong.

Like, you could not be more wrong.

And it is done at the expense of other people, taking the money they get up and go to work for. And the amount of money that is required from these people continues to rise as the number of people taking advantage of the safety net increases, as multi-generation families exist solely on this safety net. The cost rises to the point where if you want to raise a family you are almost forced to have a two income household, because one income just isn't enough any more. And still we are told we need to give more and more all of the time.

That is not dealing out help, that is spreading the misery across a greater portion of the populace and creating lazy, entitled welfare babies instead of contributing members of society.

You have a pretty twisted definition of help.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:02 PM   #19
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I think poverty is a lot less cemented than you may think, but even admitting that we can't end it overnight, there are a lot of basic, foundational things that would alleviate a ton of hardship and provide more opportunity for those below the poverty line.
Yet you advocate a 'living wage'. Do you realize that if you artificially set a wage floor you are pushing out the less experienced and less educated ie the poor? You are making it so companies are less likely to hire and train people.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:04 PM   #20
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Wage and Price controls are socialism.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:07 PM   #21
ClevelandBronco ClevelandBronco is offline
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If I didn’t already ignore every one of her threads, I’d start with this one.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:10 PM   #22
New World Order New World Order is online now
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The way socialism works is this: By distributing the wealth, it does not make all the people rich. It makes all the people poor.

-Jeff Manevich, 25-year Soviet citizen.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:27 PM   #23
Otter Otter is offline
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So while companies should remain privately owned and operated with maximum freedom of choice and contract, the government should ensure they are not gouging customers.
I'm not even sure how you can justify how this applies outside of utilities such as electricity, sewage, roadways and the such where taxes pay for the upkeep and development.

Outside of the above a consumer has every right to choose what they purchase and who they purchase goods and services. Not only that, the government can't even handle the responsibility they currently hold and you want to give them more?

Are you ****ing kidding me?

You reek of someone whom has no real world understanding of which you speak. How are you being gouged as a consumer? Your existance (as essential to the human race as it may be) doesn't require you to buy an iPhone.

The government is the most inefficient, harmful sloth created by man.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:03 PM   #24
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Before the word was severely Humpty Dumptied by rigidly authoritarian ideologues like Direckshun, liberals were known as principled advocates of natural liberty. Things like the right to own property; the right to own the fruits of your hard work, good decisions, and responsible acts; the right to defend one's self, one's family, and one's property from violent attack; the right to speak freely about a rigidly authoritarian, socialist Washington D.C.; and the right to keep and bear arms.

Because they were ashamed of their ideology and agenda, socialists have decided to start calling themselves liberals or progressives. Just like Humpty Dumpty, when socialists use a word, it means whatever they choose it too mean, neither more nor less. And just like Humpty Dumpty, being the Master of all Americans is what really matters to a rigidly authoritarian socialist like Direckshun.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:05 PM   #25
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So.....You're a Commie.
That hides behind the word Progressive
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:07 PM   #26
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A safety net is to help those who can't help themselves, or those in transition due to no fault of their own. A safety net should not be a way of life for the able bodied.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:13 PM   #27
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At least Direckshun, labeled this "his" Liberalism. That way he can make it all up. Kinda' like fitting his square peg into a round hole.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:15 PM   #28
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This seems to me to be on those threads where Direckshun tries to make themselves look more mainstream and centrist than they actually are.

Thread fail.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:21 PM   #29
Ebolapox Ebolapox is offline
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The way socialism works is this: By distributing the wealth, it does not make all the people rich. It makes all the people poor.

-Jeff Manevich, 25-year Soviet citizen.
Our system is doing a great job of enriching a select few and screwing the rest, sadly.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:23 PM   #30
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Our system is doing a great job of enriching a select few and screwing the rest, sadly.
Well, that's exactly what happens in a socialism too. It makes the few in power or connected to govt power, wealthier and most of the people poorer. We are halfway into socialism. Think it's time we roll it back.

In a full socialist, the few are an even smaller bunch who get all the goods—party members. The apparatchiks.
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Taking a brief break from Dongering,* to bring this announcement:

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Now stay tuned for Tory Magazine sometime this fall.
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