Royals 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread - Page 319

duncan_idaho · 10:01 AM

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

**petegz28** · 05-27-2013, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

I don't really hold Dayton to the expectations of large payroll teams. But I do think he should be compared to peer clubs and after 7 years its clear he can't ever out do any of them either.

GMDM has done some rather stupid things that seem to revolve around ignorance..

1. He doesn't seem to grasp the concept of .OBP
2. He brings in managers or coaches that have dick for experience or prior success

He hired I think the only manager to be fired in the middle of a playoff run
He hired a manager that had no experience in American MLB
He fired Seitzer and brought in 2 hitting coaches that have absolutely dick for ML experience

The list goes on

'Hamas' Jenkins · 05-27-2013, 09:48 PM

Outside view here:

How much do you think that the Royals' hitters underachieve because they aren't properly developed before they get to the major leagues? Far too many of your big name prospects have either disappointed outright or floundered for several years for it to just be bad luck.

Do you think that Royals prospects tend to be overhyped in general? Are they not properly developed? Or is it a combination of the two?

**DeezNutz** · 05-27-2013, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Outside view here:

How much do you think that the Royals' hitters underachieve because they aren't properly developed before they get to the major leagues? Far too many of your big name prospects have either disappointed outright or floundered for several years for it to just be bad luck.

Do you think that Royals prospects tend to be overhyped in general? Are they not properly developed? Or is it a combination of the two?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=172

'Hamas' Jenkins · 05-27-2013, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=172

So, given that you apparently have Brandon Wood and a poor man's James Loney, what do you think is the division of culpability?

**DeezNutz** · 05-27-2013, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

So, given that you apparently have Brandon Wood and a poor man's James Loney, what do you think is the division of culpability?

Begins and ends with talent, or lack thereof in this case. True stars cannot be "regressed" in my view.

Hosmer comes on the scene at 21 and flashes brightly, but his swing is sooooo ****ing long that the league immediately adjusts and stifles him.

Moose was, arguably, not even the best player on his HS team.

DM, whom I've consistently obliterated on this site, has been the beneficiary of artificially high system rankings because of KC's draft position. No more, no less.

Demonpenz · 05-27-2013, 09:59 PM

I think it is overhype a bit, as soon as I saw Hosmers swing back in the day I was like wow he has to have that kind of loadup to have power? I never really had an opinion on Moose other than he had a fat ass.

**DeezNutz** · 05-27-2013, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

I think it is overhype a bit, as soon as I saw Hosmers swing back in the day I was like wow he has to have that kind of loadup to have power? I never really had an opinion on Moose other than he had a fat ass.

Overhype or not, DM's biggest failure has been his reluctance to trade prospects for talent. In particular, he was far too protective of pitching "prospects," thus nullifying any positive returns on investment.

Draft pitchers. Trade pitchers. Rinse, repeat.

Demonpenz · 05-27-2013, 10:24 PM

I think I am throwing in the towel on this season and I hope Dayton and Yost get canned, but at least there is some parts there. Salvy, Gordon, Cain, Escabar, Shields, Holland, Crow, Guthrie, and if duffy and paulino come back...I think they maybe alright in the future.

**Bowser** · 05-27-2013, 10:28 PM

The story of the lives of the pro sports teams of this city for years on end - they all have "potential".

You know what having potential means? It means you haven't ****ing done it yet.

I so remember when this town was a baseball town. Loved those days. Fast forward to today and we have people who have literally lived their entire lives, gotten married and had kids that have no memory of the Royals being in the playoffs ever. That is nothing short of incredible.

**DeezNutz** · 05-27-2013, 10:29 PM

Escobar will either need to improve or be replaced.

.255/.283/.337 with an OPS+ of 68 doesn't play, and I don't suddenly see him becoming an OB machine.

**Bowser** · 05-27-2013, 10:33 PM

Escobar has regressed badly at the plate this year. The whole damned team outside of Gordon has regressed badly at the plate this year.

KevB · 05-27-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Escobar will either need to improve or be replaced.

.255/.283/.337 with an OPS+ of 68 doesn't play, and I don't suddenly see him becoming an OB machine.

I'm convinced it's organizational design; we don't take walks, we're "aggressive". For guys like Escobar who aren't going to slug all that much, OBP should be gospel to him.

SPchief · 05-28-2013, 12:27 AM

Escobar shouldn't be hitting in the 2 slot. It should be:
(As the roster sits now)
Cain
Gordon
Butler
Hosmer (I know I'll catch heat)
Escobar
Kottaras
Moose/Tejada
Johnson
Frenchy (since there's no one else to throw out there in right)

What it should be once Salvy comes back and Dyson is off the DL (AL I hope you check me because I think it's Sunday)

Dyson
Cain
Gordon
Butler
Perez
Escobar
Hosmer
Johnson
Moose/Tejada

AussieChiefsFan · 05-28-2013, 12:51 AM

Well it was fun while it lasted, I guess.

**petegz28** · 05-28-2013, 07:12 AM

"Mac" was on 810 this morning and one of the things he said was "knock off the stupid hand gestures.."

12-11-2012, 09:59 AM
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1840308	2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise. Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk. At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor. Burning questions updates below. Burning Questions for 2013: 1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation? Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory. 2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door? Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster. 3) Does Hosmer bounce back? Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far. 4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012? Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go. 5) Who regresses? Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years. 6) Who plays 2B? Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it. 7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level? Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha 8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014? Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014. 9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse? Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before. 10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers? Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it? Last edited by duncan_idaho; 07-15-2013 at 10:01 AM..
Posts: 21,051

05-27-2013, 09:48 PM	#4772
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8019572	Outside view here: How much do you think that the Royals' hitters underachieve because they aren't properly developed before they get to the major leagues? Far too many of your big name prospects have either disappointed outright or floundered for several years for it to just be bad luck. Do you think that Royals prospects tend to be overhyped in general? Are they not properly developed? Or is it a combination of the two? __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,820

05-27-2013, 09:59 PM	#4776
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $3202136	I think it is overhype a bit, as soon as I saw Hosmers swing back in the day I was like wow he has to have that kind of loadup to have power? I never really had an opinion on Moose other than he had a fat ass. __________________
Posts: 54,238

05-27-2013, 10:24 PM	#4778
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $3202136	I think I am throwing in the towel on this season and I hope Dayton and Yost get canned, but at least there is some parts there. Salvy, Gordon, Cain, Escabar, Shields, Holland, Crow, Guthrie, and if duffy and paulino come back...I think they maybe alright in the future. __________________
Posts: 54,238

05-27-2013, 10:28 PM	#4779
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3521616	The story of the lives of the pro sports teams of this city for years on end - they all have "potential". You know what having potential means? It means you haven't ****ing done it yet. I so remember when this town was a baseball town. Loved those days. Fast forward to today and we have people who have literally lived their entire lives, gotten married and had kids that have no memory of the Royals being in the playoffs ever. That is nothing short of incredible.
Posts: 100,455

05-27-2013, 10:33 PM	#4781
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3521616	Escobar has regressed badly at the plate this year. The whole damned team outside of Gordon has regressed badly at the plate this year.
Posts: 100,455

05-28-2013, 12:27 AM	#4783
SPchief In Search of a Life Join Date: Feb 2004 Casino cash: $1932905	Escobar shouldn't be hitting in the 2 slot. It should be: (As the roster sits now) Cain Gordon Butler Hosmer (I know I'll catch heat) Escobar Kottaras Moose/Tejada Johnson Frenchy (since there's no one else to throw out there in right) What it should be once Salvy comes back and Dyson is off the DL (AL I hope you check me because I think it's Sunday) Dyson Cain Gordon Butler Perez Escobar Hosmer Johnson Moose/Tejada __________________ http://give.somo.org/site/TR/Plunge/...nal&fr_id=1244 ^^^^^^^^^^ Click here to help with a special cause. Please help me out
Posts: 36,006

05-28-2013, 12:51 AM	#4784
AussieChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Casino cash: $6598501	Well it was fun while it lasted, I guess.
Posts: 13,731

05-28-2013, 07:12 AM	#4785
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $2884127	"Mac" was on 810 this morning and one of the things he said was "knock off the stupid hand gestures.."
Posts: 127,954