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Old 05-13-2020, 11:47 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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We gotta talk about this UDFA class.

The amount of skill and potential from this UDFA class the Chiefs secures is as good as any I’ve ever seen for any team. It’s possible we land three starters from this group, and end up with up to seven guys that contribute regularly over the next three years.

How the hell did Veach do this?

Give us your thoughts on individual players from the UDFA class. Veach needs to knock it out of the park like this every year.
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Old 05-19-2020, 10:52 AM   #31
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Y'know who Rankin kinda reminds me of? Jeff Allen.

Allen played some T at the NFL level after playing it in college and did okay at it because he's just a pretty broad dude. So he'd move (alright) and make guys take an extra step to beat him. He wasn't going to be able to hold up on an island for long drops, but he could buy you just enough time for a conventional 3-5 step setup by simply being large and in the way.

When he played G, his average athleticism could be masked a bit and he was a solid if unspectacular player there. Ultimately he was a pretty typical good college T who needed to go inside at the next level but could fill in outside in a pinch.

Rankin's a pretty broad guy and like I said - his pedigree as a 1st team all-SEC left tackle says he has plenty of potential and versatility. Seems like he's cut from an awfully similar cloth to Allen but Allen was just a little more polished, IMO. Rankin's shown some rough edges in Texas and again last season in KC. He can be better than Wylie, but he still needs to work on his craft to get there. I'm not convinced he's more than a lateral move if he hasn't improved from where he was last season.
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:42 AM   #32
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It's also possible that they run with 10 OL given the roster expansion. It would be a nice spot for a developmental prospect given the spotty contributions of the IOL and the fact that most of those guys are going to be FAs next season (I think LDT's deal voids, Reiter, Wylie and Remmers deals all expire, IIRC).

So you up the number of OL to 10 and come up with a phantom injury for another guy to tuck away on the IR and you manage to squirrel away a couple developmental guys. And you could probably get at least one of them on the PS as well.
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Old 05-19-2020, 01:32 PM   #33
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Well if the Chiefs are planning to pay Jones and Mahomes, they're gonna have to find lots of guys via the UDFA route. Probably for the next few seasons...not that Chiefs don't already do this, but you'll probably see the Chiefs go this route more than usual.

If they're lucky, they can snag a couple starters out of it, perhaps a few role players or those who can be immediate contributors.
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Old 05-19-2020, 01:41 PM   #34
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The Kansas City Chiefs Offensive Line
From UDFAs, one bench player and one practice squad

Starters
LT #72 Eric Fisher, age 29, Central Michigan, 6-7, 315,
CAP charge through 2021 - $14,981,666, $14,681,668

LG #74 Martinas Rankin, age 25, Mississippi State, 6-5, 311,
CAP charge through 2021 - $750,000, $920,000

C #62 Austin Reiter, age 28, South Florida, 6-3, 300,
CAP charge through 2020 - $3,758,334

RG #76 Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, age 29, McGill, 6-5, 321,
CAP charge through 2021 - $5,500,000, $4,000,000

RT #71 Mitchell Schwartz, age 30, California, 6-5, 320,
CAP charge through 2021 - $10,820,000, $10,005,000

Bench
C/G #73 Nick Allegretti, age 24, Illinois, 6-4, 320,
CAP charge through 2022 - $712,488, $887,988, $1,002,988

T/G #75 Mike Remmers, age 31, Oregon State, 6-5, 308,
CAP charge through 2020 - $887,500

G/T #67 Lucas Niang, TCU, 6-6, 315, Not signed yet

G #77 Andrew Wylie, age 25, Eastern Michigan, 6-6, 309,
CAP charge through 2020 - $750,000 RFA in 2021

T #70 Yasir Durant, age 21, Missouri, 6-6, 331,
CAP charge through 2022 - $612,333, $783,333, $898,334

Practice Squad
C #?? Darryl Williams, age 22, Mississippi State, 6-2, 304,
Dead Money $107,000
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:43 PM   #35
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I think Darryl gets plucked if we put him on the Squad.
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:01 PM   #36
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I think Darryl gets plucked if we put him on the Squad.
Yeah, Durant seems like a more likely PS stash because he simply wasn't as good as Williams in college and while Williams could probably be a backup C option for several NFL teams right now (especially those that aren't looking to compete this year), Durant probably requires a position switch and a lot of technique work to be rosterable.

Durant may have more long-term upside, but he's less capable of contributing immediately so the odds of him being plucked off a PS onto an active roster are more remote.
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Old 05-19-2020, 08:11 PM   #37
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It's also possible that they run with 10 OL given the roster expansion. It would be a nice spot for a developmental prospect given the spotty contributions of the IOL and the fact that most of those guys are going to be FAs next season (I think LDT's deal voids, Reiter, Wylie and Remmers deals all expire, IIRC).

So you up the number of OL to 10 and come up with a phantom injury for another guy to tuck away on the IR and you manage to squirrel away a couple developmental guys. And you could probably get at least one of them on the PS as well.
Actually, if Rankin isn't ready to go, he could be stashed on the PUP. He'd be eligible to return after week 6, and he wouldn't use up one of the 2 return from IR options.
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Old 05-19-2020, 08:24 PM   #38
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I think we've overstated how good Rankin was, but he showed enough potential that with additional development he could win the job.

I mean we kill Wylie, but he gave up 2 sacks in over 700 snaps. Rankin gave up 1 in less than 300.
Keep in mind that Wylie lined up next to Schwartz during the 2018 season while Rankin, an August 31st 2019 acquisition, lined up next to Cam Erving.

I'd love to see the Chiefs solve the left guard position, whether it's Rankin, Niang or whomever, because the reality of the situation is that the Chiefs haven't had a solid, let alone spectacular year-in and year-out left guard, since Brian Waters retired after the 2010 season.
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:47 PM   #39
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I really like TerShawn Wharton to generate a lot of surprise buzz during camp and to flash in preseason contests. He dominated against weak competition as he should have and has some serious athleticism for a man his size. With the coaching and surrounding veterans he will have, he could prove to be a real gem.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:30 AM   #40
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Keep in mind that Wylie lined up next to Schwartz during the 2018 season while Rankin, an August 31st 2019 acquisition, lined up next to Cam Erving.

I'd love to see the Chiefs solve the left guard position, whether it's Rankin, Niang or whomever, because the reality of the situation is that the Chiefs haven't had a solid, let alone spectacular year-in and year-out left guard, since Brian Waters retired after the 2010 season.
I think IOL will be the area we tend to go low-cost on for the foreseeable future. That doesn't really explain the LDT restructure apart from them maybe just not seeing the depth they'd hoped for on the interior just yet.

I mean they wouldn't pay for a Pro Bowl guy in Morse or Hudson so clearly the bar for a second contract is pretty high. Unless they stumble into a true anchor there; a Grubbs in his prime sort - I gotta imagine there's gonna be substantial turnover there for as long as they're paying through the nose on skill position guys.

Or maybe if they don't have the luxury of bookend Ts that are costing them a bit more they'd put more money at G. Maybe they earmark say 15% of their cap to the OL in any given year and if they don't have a Fisher/Schwartz duo they need to fit into that cap, they'd spend a little more to retain a guy like Morse.

But Andy will ALWAYS be on the lookout for valuable Ts given his belief in the shell concept. So with finite resources and a position that's a little easier to cut corners on, I figure IOL will always be a little piecemeal.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:36 AM   #41
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I think IOL will be the area we tend to go low-cost on for the foreseeable future. That doesn't really explain the LDT restructure apart from them maybe just not seeing the depth they'd hoped for on the interior just yet.

I mean they wouldn't pay for a Pro Bowl guy in Morse or Hudson so clearly the bar for a second contract is pretty high. Unless they stumble into a true anchor there; a Grubbs in his prime sort - I gotta imagine there's gonna be substantial turnover there for as long as they're paying through the nose on skill position guys.

Or maybe if they don't have the luxury of bookend Ts that are costing them a bit more they'd put more money at G. Maybe they earmark say 15% of their cap to the OL in any given year and if they don't have a Fisher/Schwartz duo they need to fit into that cap, they'd spend a little more to retain a guy like Morse.

But Andy will ALWAYS be on the lookout for valuable Ts given his belief in the shell concept. So with finite resources and a position that's a little easier to cut corners on, I figure IOL will always be a little piecemeal.
Weren't they in on Hudson til the end though? I wouldn't have been opposed to keeping him around but money is money i guess. Morse just was too injury prone for my taste. I would really like to see them invest heavily in a center at some point though.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:40 AM   #42
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Weren't they in on Hudson til the end though? I wouldn't have been opposed to keeping him around but money is money i guess. Morse just was too injury prone for my taste. I would really like to see them invest heavily in a center at some point though.
Yes and no. They were busting their asses in-season to get something done and thought they had it wrapped up but Hudson backed out at the last minute. And I can't blame him - you take someone to week 7 of their FA season and what's their benefit in signing early?

Once he went to FA and the offers started rolling in that were 30-40% higher than what the Chiefs thought they were gonna get done previously, they were out of the running.

Additionally, they didn't have Mitchell Schwartz at the time so that may have played a part in it. They didn't have that more expensive RT to pay for so they were willing to pay for Hudson.

So you say Morse was too injury prone and you'd like to see them invest in C - but if that played out that way in '15 and Hudson came back only to take them out of the running for Schwartz, would you be happy with that (rhetorical question...I hope).

I think they have a philosophy of building from the outside in on the OL unless that option just isn't available to them.
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:05 AM   #43
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Yes and no. They were busting their asses in-season to get something done and thought they had it wrapped up but Hudson backed out at the last minute. And I can't blame him - you take someone to week 7 of their FA season and what's their benefit in signing early?

Once he went to FA and the offers started rolling in that were 30-40% higher than what the Chiefs thought they were gonna get done previously, they were out of the running.

Additionally, they didn't have Mitchell Schwartz at the time so that may have played a part in it. They didn't have that more expensive RT to pay for so they were willing to pay for Hudson.

So you say Morse was too injury prone and you'd like to see them invest in C - but if that played out that way in '15 and Hudson came back only to take them out of the running for Schwartz, would you be happy with that (rhetorical question...I hope).

I think they have a philosophy of building from the outside in on the OL unless that option just isn't available to them.
No, Schwartz is just a cornerstone over there and arguably one of the better players league wide. He's not going anywhere.

By invest I meant more of an earlier round draft pick
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:16 AM   #44
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No, Schwartz is just a cornerstone over there and arguably one of the better players league wide. He's not going anywhere.

By invest I meant more of an earlier round draft pick
I'll never find the research, but there has been a lot done on the relative ROI for position groups.

Early round IOL provide only marginally better outcomes than RBs and LBs. RBs actually showed an inverted yield curve with off-ball linebackers being almost completely flat.

Large numbers over the last several years say that you're just not that much more likely to get a difference maker in the 1st round than you are in the 3rd or 4th for IOL.
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:04 AM   #45
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But Andy will ALWAYS be on the lookout for valuable Ts given his belief in the shell concept. So with finite resources and a position that's a little easier to cut corners on, I figure IOL will always be a little piecemeal.
I'm personally fine with piecemeal on the IOL. Andy's proven time and time again that late rounders and UDFA's who have a particular skillset can be molded into solid players for this offense.

That's what killed me when so many forum members were all screaming for an IOL in the first round of the 2020 draft: "We need a guard or a center or both! Gotta protect the MVP!". I found that not only to be wrong but absurd. The best running back in the draft is going to make much bigger difference - a very tangible difference - than the best center or guard.

The Chiefs just won a Super Bowl with a 7th round center, a 6th round guard, half a dozen starters at LG and a Cam Erving at LT for 8 games.

I think Andy's got a handle on this offensive line thing, despite the fact that most Chiefs fans think that the offensive line excellence is the only way to win.
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