Game of Thrones *Spoiler* Thread

[keg in kc]

There's been some recent confusion with the old spoiler thread, so I'm kicking off a new one for tonight's premiere. This is going to be the one for folks who've read all the books. So anything anybody might want to talk about is in bounds. Suffice to say, if you haven't read the books, you'll probably want to stay out of here until you do...

I'll bump the old spoiler-free thread shortly in case anybody's interested. For future reference the link to that one is here

[KcMizzou]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Line of the night had to be Olanna telling Tywin that he should enjoy himself before he dies.

Man, I almost wish I hadn't read the book.

Not a big fan of the way he chooses to do it.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Douche Baggins

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[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You know, they may have played up all the clues in the book:

Dontos gives her the necklace, which she wears to the wedding.

The Queen of Thorns messes with her hair (does she touch anywhere around the necklace?).

Was the goblet close enough for Olanna to have dropped it in there? Margaery did carry it off in that direction.


I was too busy gleefully waiting for Joffrey to die to pay too close attention.

If you watch closely, you see her right hand touch Sansa around the collarbone, then curl up and pull away (just like a pull/hiding something.

From then on, one tine of the necklace (left collarbone) is tucked underneath the hem of the top.

Was watching closely for it.

[Hammock Parties]

**** you, Joffrey.

[AndChiefs]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You know, they may have played up all the clues in the book:

Dontos gives her the necklace, which she wears to the wedding.

The Queen of Thorns messes with her hair (does she touch anywhere around the necklace?).

Was the goblet close enough for Olanna to have dropped it in there? Margaery did carry it off in that direction.


I was too busy gleefully waiting for Joffrey to die to pay too close attention.

Maybe Margaery dropped it in...Olanna could get the stone and then give it to her at some point.

[Chief Gump]

Originally Posted by AndChiefs

It never explicitly says but that's certainly what you're led to believe.

I really hope that Mr. Martin comes back on this in the books and tells you who actually did it. That is going to suck if he just leaves it hanging.

[Hawk]

Littlefinger basically tells Sansa that it was the Queen of Thorns who took the stone from her hairnet and used it to poison Joffrey. It is possible Littlefinger was lying, but he was being truthful about everything else when he said it, so I think it is true.

If you watch closely in this episode, when she first goes up to Sansa, she pretty clearly grabs one of the stones off Sansa's necklace and you can see where the stone is missing after that. There's also a shot of Joffrey taking the cup from the table for his last drink, and she is sitting within arm's length of the cup, so she had opportunity. I don't think there's any doubt the Queen of Thorns did it.

As a book reader, I am enjoying all the theories being posted in the non-spoiler threads. A lot of people seem to think it was Cersei which is funny. I mean it makes sense, she's a twisted evil bitch and she was losing her grip on her power as a result of the wedding, and Tommen being king puts her back on top, plus she could frame Tyrion for it and she hates Tyrion. But book readers know that for all of Cersei's failings, which are many, she loves her kids and would do anything to protect them, I guess they can't bring that through as easily on the show as GRRM can in her POV chapters.

[AndChiefs]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Littlefinger basically tells Sansa that it was the Queen of Thorns who took the stone from her hairnet and used it to poison Joffrey. It is possible Littlefinger was lying, but he was being truthful about everything else when he said it, so I think it is true.

If you watch closely in this episode, when she first goes up to Sansa, she pretty clearly grabs one of the stones off Sansa's necklace and you can see where the stone is missing after that. There's also a shot of Joffrey taking the cup from the table for his last drink, and she is sitting within arm's length of the cup, so she had opportunity. I don't think there's any doubt the Queen of Thorns did it.

As a book reader, I am enjoying all the theories being posted in the non-spoiler threads. A lot of people seem to think it was Cersei which is funny. I mean it makes sense, she's a twisted evil bitch and she was losing her grip on her power as a result of the wedding, and Tommen being king puts her back on top, plus she could frame Tyrion for it and she hates Tyrion. But book readers know that for all of Cersei's failings, which are many, she loves her kids and would do anything to protect them, I guess they can't bring that through as easily on the show as GRRM can in her POV chapters.

The Cersei theories are hilarious.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by KcMizzou

I've always kinda felt like Joffrey got off easy.

He did. Sansa, Arya, Snow or some Stark loyalist should not only have killed him but pulled at bastard Bolton on him. I was pissed when I read this scene. I read a recent interview with George RR where he said he didn't cheat the readers by not allowing a Stark to kill him or suffer more. Wellll I have a different opinion.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

He did. Sansa, Arya, Snow or some Stark loyalist should not only have killed him but pulled at bastard Bolton on him. I was pissed when I read this scene. I read a recent interview with George RR where he said he didn't cheat the readers by not allowing a Stark to kill him or suffer more. Wellll I have a different opinion.

I have a feeling there will be redemption for the remaining Starks, given I read somewhere that the final book was originally going to be titled "A Time for Wolves". You have Jon Snow (semi-Stark) with potentially big things. Sansa may take over the Vale. Arya is just a badass. Bran is a kickass omniscient tree and Rickon could be a very interesting piece given where he is. Not to mention Lady Stoneheart and where that could be headed.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Chief Gump

I really hope that Mr. Martin comes back on this in the books and tells you who actually did it. That is going to suck if he just leaves it hanging.

Although it doesn't state it as fact, the books certainly lead you to believe it was Olanna to save Margery from torture and be able to control the little brother better. She got help from Littlefinger and Dontos. Littlefinger wanted Sansa for himself to rule the Vale and or the North. Or at least it was clear to me as I read the books.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You know, they may have played up all the clues in the book:

Dontos gives her the necklace, which she wears to the wedding.

The Queen of Thorns messes with her hair (does she touch anywhere around the necklace?).

Was the goblet close enough for Olanna to have dropped it in there? Margaery did carry it off in that direction.


I was too busy gleefully waiting for Joffrey to die to pay too close attention.

As to Lady Olenna, Sansa was way at over at one end of the table with Lady O sitting next to Queen Marjery near the middle. She HAD to have walked past Joff's station to get to her seat. She might have done it herself, or passed the stone to Marjery. Marjery WAS enticing Joff to both eat and drink.

All conjecture, though. Would have helped paint the picture if they had shown Lady O walking past the cup or hot ass Marjery, but that would have made it too simple to know for sure, likely.

Either way, fantastic job by all in that scene, especially Jack Gleeson. As you said keg, that was a great makeup job.

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by Bowser

As to Lady Olenna, Sansa was way at over at one end of the table with Lady O sitting next to Queen Marjery near the middle. She HAD to have walked past Joff's station to get to her seat. She might have done it herself, or passed the stone to Marjery. Marjery WAS enticing Joff to both eat and drink.

All conjecture, though. Would have helped paint the picture if they had shown Lady O walking past the cup or hot ass Marjery, but that would have made it too simple to know for sure, likely.

Either way, fantastic job by all in that scene, especially Jack Gleeson. As you said keg, that was a great makeup job.

They do show a camera shot that puts Lady Olenna as the closest to Joffrey's cup as it sits on the table.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Hawk

They do show a camera shot that puts Lady Olenna as the closest to Joffrey's cup as it sits on the table.

Plus her comment of "killing a man at a wedding" being cowardly.

[keg in kc]

I don't think she dropped the strangler in until immediately before Joff died. Margaery took his cup and put it down near Olanna at about that point IIRC.

It's amusing looking at the spoiler-free thread and Buck freaking out that somebody may have spoiled the potential "season long whodunit" for him. I have a feeling the show will handle it exactly like the books did: everything is there in plain sight, but they'll never actually make it obvious.

Now it's all about the chain of events with Tyrion, turning Jamie into an even more sympathetic character, turning Cersei into an even more vile harpie and ultimately killing Tywin (and Shae). I don't think there's any way the show turns it into a murder mystery, it's got to be a public demonization of the imp.