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Old 08-12-2018, 07:30 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Is Rand Paul singlehandedly preventing war with Iran? Could be...

Rand Paul Against the World
I have to wonder if Trump is trying to keep his enemies close.

There are also powerful factions in Congress and Washington with inroads to the president that have been itching for regime change for years. “The policy of the United States should be regime change in Iran,” says Senator Tom Cotton, once rumored to be Trump’s pick to head the CIA.

Trump advisors Bolton and Pompeo, and apparently now Mattis (unlike earlier) are for it too. Trump is surrounded by the same kind of advisors Bush had around him, who encouraged him, lied to him by leaning on intel to fix it to their policy. ...virtually every major foreign policy advisor in his cabinet supporting something close to war with Iran.


So what, or who, is stopping the hawks?


It's Rand Paul.

The American Conservative with some references to Politico

Paul and Trump apparently like making fun of some White House staffers... “the Kentucky senator and the commander-in-chief have bonded over a shared delight in thumbing their noses at experts the president likes to deride as ‘foreign policy eggheads,’ including those who work in his own administration.”...

Eggheads indeed. For every foreign policy “expert” in Washington who now admits that regime change in Iraq was a mistake (and a whole slew of them won’t even cop to that), you will find the same people making the case for regime change in other countries, including Iran, explaining how this time, somehow, America’s toppling of a despot will turn out differently.

These are the same Washington foreign policy consensus standard bearers who would likely be shaping U.S. foreign policy unfettered if 2011 Libya “liberator” Hillary Clinton had become president—or any other Republican not named Trump or Paul.
Even Bloomberg reports:
Trump Has Clipped the Wings of Uber-Hawk John Bolton

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...wk-john-bolton
I hope this is true.
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Old 08-13-2018, 06:50 AM   #16
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
poor post

US must look out for US interests. Always. Everywhere.
FYP Eleazer/Cochise's post is typical boilerplate from the unholy alliance of NeoCons/Religious Right from which both of you hail. And it's been a blatant failure that most Americans can see.

But using a vague term such as interests? You mean business interests; ideological and religious interests — but zero national security interests. We shouldn't start wars for "interests" but to protect the land called America and her citizens.

Iran is NOT a threat to the United States—not unless we entangle our selves militarily or too deeply in MidEast conflicts such as starting and fighting wars for Israel. It is an Israel first and MIC interests. Starting a war with them for regime change, whether by proxy or direct bombing will make Iraq and Syria look like a picnic.

Not surprising that you guys keep holding so tightly to a failed ME FP that most polls don't even back you up on. Still, OUT-of-TOUCH with Americans; still oblivious to why you guys were lost power in all three govt branches bringing in a man who ran on a peace platform but then largely betrayed it—except on Iran.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:00 AM   #17
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't see how you can say that. Iraq is now a good ally of Iran, who we're still complainin' about. One of you hawks, used Iran killing our troops in Iraq as a reason to bomb them next. Iran, an ally of Iraq Shia-run govt,was helping their ally as they have been in Syria but that's bad to you hawks. By doing Iraq the buffer between Iran and Israel is gone. How does that keep your favorite socialist state safe?
Yes, Iran killing our troops is bad to us hawks. It's hard to understand why it wouldn't be for you or any other American. I think your characterization of the Iran-Iraq relationship ("good ally") is exaggerated too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
And if it was bad having Saddam in there, then why did we put him in? That's just another lesson to learn.

"Obama being gone and there's stability?" You can't be serious. Obama was Bush on steroids. He started more wars than Bush, he just did one by proxy and used drones for another. Libya is a mess—a failed state with a slave market ongoing. Syria is destroyed.
You misread that. He's saying that Obama created instability and since he's left the situation is becoming more stable.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:06 AM   #18
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
But using a vague term such as interests? You mean business interests; ideological and religious interests — but zero national security interests. We shouldn't start wars for "interests" but to protect the land called America and her citizens.
"Protect"... Such a vague term you use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Iran is NOT a threat to the United States—not unless we entangle our selves militarily or too deeply in MidEast conflicts such as starting and fighting wars for Israel. It is an Israel first and MIC interests. Starting a war with them for regime change, whether by proxy or direct bombing will make Iraq and Syria look like a picnic.

Not surprising that you guys keep holding so tightly to a failed ME FP that most polls don't even back you up on. Still, OUT-of-TOUCH with Americans; still oblivious to why you guys were lost power in all three govt branches bringing in a man who ran on a peace platform but then largely betrayed it—except on Iran.
Killing our troops and giving aid to our enemies makes Iran a threat by definition. Their pursuit of nuclear weapons and ICBMs also make them an emerging nuclear threat that we should nip in the bud.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:39 AM   #19
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
"Protect"... Such a vague term you use.



Killing our troops and giving aid to our enemies makes Iran a threat by definition. Their pursuit of nuclear weapons and ICBMs also make them an emerging nuclear threat that we should nip in the bud.

She is irrational and totally emotion based in her ability to comprehend such things as "interests". No one with any ability to think would agree that we have to look out for our interests on every level, everywhere. Why is that even a point to argue.

The only argument, once reasonable people agree, is to discuss at what level and to what extent do we deploy resources and efforts against any given identified interest or issue.

You do a nice job engaging BEP. Its a lost cause.
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