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Old 09-25-2008, 07:23 PM  
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Bailout talks close, then McCain arrives and now they've stalled

McCain: gets things undone.


Blame Game Begins as Bailout Proposal Fizzles
Susan Davis reports on Congress.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/0...posal-fizzles/



President Bush, second from right, meets with John McCain, far left, and Barack Obama, far right, and congressional leaders in the Cabinet Room of the White House on Thursday. (AP)


Congressional Democratic leaders wasted no time pointing the blame at House Republicans and in particular Republican presidential candidate John McCain after a tentative deal on the $700 billion financial sector bailout proposal blew up following an afternoon meeting at the White House.

“I would suggest that anyone in that meeting who tried to understand what John McCain said at that meeting, couldn’t,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada told reporters Thursday evening.

McCain suspended his campaign to return to Washington D.C. to take part in negotiations on the bailout. Barack Obama also returned after President Bush requested he attend today’s meeting. Reid suggested McCain’s return injected politics in to the negotiations. McCain was the last one to speak at the White House meeting, Reid said, and he “didn’t say anything substantive.”

“John McCain did nothing to help, he only hurt the process,” Reid said, further chastising McCain for calling for a delay in Friday’s presidential debate in Mississippi. “We should not let this little effort to avoid participating in the debates sidetrack this most important issue,” Reid said.

Growing resistance among House Republicans played a greater role in stalling negotiations, as a faction of GOP lawmakers released principles for a competing bailout proposal as it became increasingly clear that the tentative agreement did not have broad support in the House Republican Conference. One House Republican aide estimated that no more than 45 House Republicans would support the current proposal.

Key negotiators expressed surprise at the counter proposal. Reid said he was “stunned” by House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio who had previously expressed his support for passing a bipartisan plan.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said she does not want to bring a bill to the floor without a significant number of House Republicans on board. Democrats are not keen to take political ownership of a Bush administration proposal less than six weeks before Election Day.

“If it’s going to pass, it needs to be bipartisan,” House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland told reporters, adding that he has “confidence” that Boehner is working to that end. “I hope that his Conference will cooperate in that effort.” Hoyer declined to say how many House Republicans would have to be on board for Democrats to bring the measure to the floor.

Reid said negotiations will begin again at 8:00pm/ET tonight. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke were headed back to Capitol Hill to meet with lawmakers. Reid said he asked Paulson to “do what he can” to get House Republicans on board.

“It’s all very fuzzy to us, we don’t know where we are,” House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank told reporters on the status of negotiations. Frank also suggested McCain’s return to Capitol Hill hurt negotiations.

“Sen. McCain has not been involved in this,” Frank said, noting the Arizona senator does not sit on any committees of jurisdiction and did not take place in earlier negotiations. “I think this was a campaign ploy by Sen. McCain,” he said, “He slowed it down. I don’t know if he caused it or what.” Echoing Reid, Frank said McCain should participate in Friday’s presidential debate, adding that if he doesn’t it’s “only because he doesn’t want to.”

UPDATE: “As far as I know Sen. McCain has not endorsed this plan. This is not a product of his campaign,” Virginia Republican Rep. Eric Cantor told reporters tonight. Cantor is leading the coalition of House Republicans who devised the competing plan with the consent of Boehner; he took issue with characterizations that Republicans surprised negotiators with their proposal.

“We’ve been talking about this plan for at least two days,” he said. Cantor defended McCain’s decision to return to Washington for “trying to affect the change needed” to get a bill done. “I applaud him in coming back and making sure that as a senator he is here to do that,” he said.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:14 PM   #46
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by memyselfI View Post
The DEMS are now in a position to be fighting DUHbya's battles against renegade and rebel Republicans and John McCain.


Please, God, vote for John McCain. I really hope that you do. I don't care if it cancels out someone else's vote, because you are such a contemptuous, utterly worthless sack of shit, such a vile miscreant, so hopelessly duplicitous and without merit, that the mere fact of knowing that I voted against you a second time will be more than enough salve to allay any wounds that may be associated with the cancellation of a vote.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:14 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by memyselfI View Post
CNN reported the House Republicans have been trying to introduce other proposals and getting nowhere. McCain shows up and now they are being heard.

NObama is now going to be in a position to vigorously fight FOR DUHBya's plan or JOIN McCain in stalling it and looking for alternatives.
still stumping for Hillary '12, i see.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by SHTSPRAYER View Post
It has already been discussed, between the group organizing the debates. Mississippi State and Obama's campaign team. Think about it, this could work, a huge national TV interview with all the networks covering it. Would the audience be the same as a true debate, but it would still be huge.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:16 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by CRONUS View Post
McCain is committing political suicide, if this is true. Talking about blowback, he will lose as many voters as he gained with the Palin political move if true.
Funny how she asks for support for that claim (that's in this very thread), I show it to her, and I get no response.

The rat flea didn't even read the goddamned story (obviously). She just came in here to run her ignorant mouth and spew her hate and her love of misery.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:18 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Funny how she asks for support for that claim (that's in this very thread), I show it to her, and I get no response.

The rat flea didn't even read the goddamned story (obviously). She just came in here to run her ignorant mouth and spew her hate and her love of misery.

I saw your post. CNN is reporting something different.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:19 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by CRONUS View Post
McCain is committing political suicide, if this is true. Talking about blowback, he will lose as many voters as he gained with the Palin political move if true.
What do you expect? His campaign's economic adviser was one of the architects of this crisis in the first place.

Hey, Wall Street screwed everything up, we'd better let them rewrite the rules to their advantage again so we ensure this scenario repeats itself.

All part of shock politics.

______________
AMY GOODMAN: While the collapse of this country’s financial system continues to send shock waves around the world, I’m joined on the telephone by bestselling author of The Shock Doctrine, Naomi Klein. Her latest article for the Huffington Post is called “Now Is the Time to Resist Wall Street’s Shock Doctrine.” Naomi Klein, welcome to Democracy Now!


NAOMI KLEIN: Thanks, Amy. Great to talk with you.


AMY GOODMAN: Explain. What do you mean?


NAOMI KLEIN: Well, the thesis of my book, what I mean by the “shock doctrine,” is that it is in times of crisis, it is in times when people are panicked, when we’ve seen again and again the right push through radical pro-corporate policies, what they call “free market reforms,” precisely because it is in a crisis where the space for debate rapidly closes, and you can invoke this state of emergency to say we have no choice.


And I think we’re seeing a very dramatic example of this tactic right now with this really extortionist kind of tactics playing out in Washington. You know, “Sign this blank check, or we’re all going down, or Main Street is going down, or taxpayers—you know, the sky will fall in on them.”


I’m also arguing that this is only stage one of the shock doctrine. They’re getting this—they’re lobbying for this huge bailout, obviously, but this bailout is a kind of a time bomb, because it’s all these bad debts, and they are going to explode on the next administration. I mean, we know that the Bush administration has already left the next administration with huge debt and deficit problems. They’ve just exploded those, expanded them. And what that means is that whoever the next president is is going to be inheriting this economic crisis that is being exacerbated by this bailout.


So, in the case of McCain, I think—if he’s the president, then I think we know what he’ll do, because we know he wants to privatize Social Security, which is something that Wall Street’s been wanting for a long time, another bubble. We know he has said in the next—in the first 100 days of his administration he’ll look at every program and either reform it or shut it down. This is really a recipe for economic shock therapy. So, while you have all of these trivial issues being discussed in the election season, I think what we could—what we’re really—you know, under the surface, they’re actually being quite clear. They’re going to take—if they take power, it will be in the midst of an economic emergency. They’ll invoke that emergency to push through very, very radical changes. So, you know, what I’ve been saying is, this is not four more years of Bush; it’s much, much worse in the case of another Republican administration.


But there’s huge problems for Democrats, as well, if they win this election, because, you know, we need to only think back to the situation in which Clinton took power, where he ran an election on an economic populist platform, promising to renegotiate NAFTA. Then there was an economic crisis. Clinton came under intense lobbying by people like Robert Rubin, who’s also advising Obama right now, and by the time he took office, he had embraced economic austerity.


So, people need to understand these tactics, need to put pressure on the candidates, the parties, and reject this tactic. And I’ve actually been really heartened, Amy, that people are onto these shock tactics and aren’t falling for it. And, you know, to the extent that we’re seeing a little bit of spine from the Democrats, it is only, as Chris Dodd said, because they are hearing it from their constituents. So people need to keep up this pressure right now.


AMY GOODMAN: Naomi Klein, one of the things you write about in this piece in Huffington Post is the wish list that comes from former Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich—


NAOMI KLEIN: Yes.


AMY GOODMAN: —laying out policy prescriptions for Congress.


NAOMI KLEIN: Yeah. I mean, there is pressure being put on Congress from Democrats who—you know, we’ve heard the proposals to cap executive pay and to have a moratorium on foreclosures. It’s coming not from all Democrats, but from some. But there’s something going on on the Republican side, where you have people like Newt Gingrich, and you also have the Republican Study Committee, which is a group of very influential Republican lawmakers who are saying that they’re opposed to the bailout, and they also have their wish list. And I think it is that it’s not that they’re going to oppose a bailout completely; it’s that they want economic changes, right-wing, pro-corporate economic changes, attached to a bailout. So, Newt Gingrich has his list. He’s got eighteen demands. But I think even more important than that is the Republican Study Committee, and I raise this because they’ve just issued their ransom list. It starts with suspending the capital gains tax, privatizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, suspending mark-to-market accounting, which is the rule that requires companies to assess their assets at current market values.


So, what’s so stunning about this, Amy, is that here you have a crisis that everyone seems to agree is borne of deregulation, and they’re actually calling for more deregulation. We have a situation where the debt is exploding on American taxpayers, and they want to suspend corporate profits—sorry, corporate taxes, which is actually what might defray some of those costs from regular taxpayers. So it’s an incredible display of opportunism. And this is what I mean by stage two of the shock doctrine. The first stage is just the bailout, but the second stage are all of these radical reforms that are going to be invoked in the name of the crisis that the bailout is creating, whether it’s pushed through right now or whether it’s pushed through later.


But what’s important—you know, Amy, in the book, I talk about—I start the book with a quote from Milton Friedman that has really made the rounds a lot lately, which is that—and this is a Friedman quote—that “only a crisis, actual or perceived, produces real change. And when the crisis occurs, the change depends on the ideas that are lying around." And then he goes on to say, “That, I believe, is our basic function: to keep the ideas ready until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable.” So I think it’s really important for people to look at the ideas that are lying around.


There’s enormous corporate lobbying going on to, for instance, eliminate the post-Enron collapse regulations, to actually say that the way to save the American economy—you know, you heard Henry Paulson equating—still equating the interests of the financial sector with the interests of everyone else. We know that’s simply not true. But it’s that—precisely that logic that then is used to say, OK, these are the—this is what the financial community, this is what the corporate world needs in order to revive the economy: they need less regulation, they need less taxation.


So, we should be really, really wary of this claim that we’re hearing that free market ideology is dead, that this marks the end of, you know, of capitalism. You know, I’m sorry, that is not the case. It may be going dormant for a little while to rationalize these massive bailouts, but it will come roaring back, and the crisis that is being deepened right now through these bailouts will be invoked for even more radical deregulation, privatization, tax cuts and so on.


AMY GOODMAN: It seems clearly, Naomi Klein, what’s needed, a key ingredient here, is speed.


NAOMI KLEIN: Yeah.


AMY GOODMAN: You see this happen right after 9/11 with the USA PATRIOT Act being pushed through. You saw it with the vote in October of 2002 for the invasion of Iraq. It’s speed and the idea of an imminent threat.


NAOMI KLEIN: Absolutely.


AMY GOODMAN: And then, of course, this week it’s not only about passing this legislation, but it is passing it by Friday.


NAOMI KLEIN: Absolutely. You know, and a lot of people have even described this Paulson plan as an economic PATRIOT Act. You know, one of the mistakes that I think they made, honestly, Amy, is how short it is. It’s just three pages, which means—you know, usually these pieces of legislation are much longer, so people don’t even bother reading them in that moment of extortion—you know, “Pass it now, or else…or else the sky falls in.” So, you know, in this case, I think they made a miscalculation. You know, there was an interesting article in Time that just came out, where they actually say that they have been working—you know, this is a quote—it says, “[Paulson] and his team [have] been working on [this] proposal for more than six months.” So, it’s quite surprising that it is as pared down as it is. It’s three pages. And the craziest thing has happened: people have read it. Regular people have read it. It doesn’t take that much time. And, you know, you read Section 8, which is just so stunning, just so bold in its demand for total and complete impunity. And that’s really what’s getting in their way, is people are reading this text, and they’re frankly shocked by it.


You know, we heard Henry Paulson say that he thought it would have been presumptuous to put in clauses calling for regulation. This is absolute nonsense. Section 2 of the same document talks about how they have the right to hire contractors to administer this huge operation, and we know that that means contracting with some of the very firms who are going to be bailed out. And then it says that it would be—they would be contracting them without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts. Amy, that is just as—that’s Iraq levels of impunity, or even more. I mean, basically what they are saying is that we want to be able to contract with companies but exempt those companies from the existing laws that bar conflict of interest, that have whistleblowing laws. I mean, the laws exist on the books, and they are actively excluding these contracts from those laws. So the idea that they didn’t want to be presumptuous is complete nonsense. They are being extremely presumptuous, because they are actively excluding these contractors, these would-be contractors, from existing oversight. We have to be very clear about this.


AMY GOODMAN: It’s interesting who Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is, served as an assistant to Richard Nixon’s assistant, John Ehrlichman, and moved right from there to Goldman Sachs, then became head of it when, well, the now-Senator and then-Governor Corzine left Goldman Sachs.


NAOMI KLEIN: You know, Amy, I don’t think we can stress this enough. Henry Paulson is one of the key people, the top people, responsible for creating the crisis that he is now claiming he will solve, you know, and this is—if we think about the 9/11 analogy and, you know, the state of shock that Americans were in after 9/11 and the emergence of Rudy Giuliani as the savior—and, you know, people have so much regret about that. And in the book, I write about this as the state of regression that we go into when we’re frightened. And I think Henry Paulson has really been cast in this role as an economic Rudy Giuliani, saving the day, impartial, bipartisan, a strong leader.


I found this article in BusinessWeek that ran when Paulson was appointed to the Treasury, and I just want to read you one sentence, because I think it’s all we need to know about Henry Paulson. This is from BusinessWeek, when he got the appointment as Treasury Secretary in 2006. The headline of the article is “Mr. Risk Goes to Washington.” It says, “Think of Paulson as Mr. Risk. He’s one of the key architects of a more daring Wall Street, where securities firms are taking greater and greater chances in [their] pursuit of profits. By some key measures, the securities industry is more leveraged now than it was at the height of the 1990s boom.”


Then it goes on to say that when Paulson took over Goldman Sachs in 1999, they had $20 billion in debts. When he—in these high-risk gambles. When he left, they had $100 billion, which means he took their risk level from $20 billion to $100 billion. So it is absolutely no exaggeration to say that Henry Paulson, far from speaking for Main Street, is actually bailing out his colleagues for some of the very debts that he himself accumulated. This is an extraordinary conflict of interest.


AMY GOODMAN: And then, of course, there’s the question of his own interests in Goldman Sachs today.


NAOMI KLEIN: Well, you know, allegedly, he divested from the company, so I can’t comment on that, but I think there’s some good investigation to be done.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:19 PM   #52
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You have zero understanding of what's going on.
I smelled this rat the FIRST day the news was announced...


09-19-2008, 04:02 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...74#post5035274
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:21 PM   #53
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I saw your post. CNN is reporting something different.
What is it exactly that you think the alternate proposal consists of?
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:25 PM   #54
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What is it exactly that you think the alternate proposal consists of?
Well, I'm not sure since they just presented them and CNN just had breaking news saying they included some mortgage insurance and capital gains tax proposals. Maybe the actual document has not been released to the media yet as the talks just ended.

, NObama stays in DC tonight.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:25 PM   #55
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I saw your post. CNN is reporting something different.
I'm watching CNN, dumbass. They aren't reporting a goddamned thing about what he said.

If the New York Times says that a bomb went off in Times Square and the Washington Post has nothing up on their website, obviously the bomb didn't go off.

Jesus, you are ****ing retarded.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:30 PM   #56
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I smelled this rat the FIRST day the news was announced...


09-19-2008, 04:02 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...74#post5035274
Obama's initial reaction was somewhat cautious. You're delusional if you think he's perceived as "cheering" Bush's plan, though. He's been quite clear that he doesn't support it without quite a few changes and stipulations. Quite a few Dems are also throwing out a preference for a staged payout with stipulations to be met before each payout. That's hardly the plan that Bush initially proposed, which would have turned over 700b to his dipshit flunkie to spend as he sees fit.

If Obama's take on it is that we need taxpayer protection and homeowner protection without golden parachutes for execs and McCain's plan is that we need corporate protection, I think even a bitterly delusional person such as yourself can see whose going to come out ahead in that fight.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:30 PM   #57
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'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:32 PM   #58
banyon banyon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfI View Post
Well, I'm not sure since they just presented them and CNN just had breaking news saying they included some mortgage insurance and capital gains tax proposals. Maybe the actual document has not been released to the media yet as the talks just ended.

, NObama stays in DC tonight.
So you're running your mouth and you have no idea. Thanks for playing.
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banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.banyon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:32 PM   #59
memyselfI memyselfI is offline
CHANGEd your mind yet????
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
I'm watching CNN, dumbass. They aren't reporting a goddamned thing about what he said.

If the New York Times says that a bomb went off in Times Square and the Washington Post has nothing up on their website, obviously the bomb didn't go off.

Jesus, you are ****ing retarded.
They just had a reporter call in and interupted Anderson Cooper's interview with Gloria Borger, Ed Rollins, and whoever the third talking head was. The reporter said the alternate proposal included mortgage insurance which she said Paulson said wouldn't work and capital gains tax proposals. She said that the meeting had just ended and that Obama was spending the night in DC because the meeting will resume at 11:30 tomorrow.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:32 PM   #60
SBK SBK is offline
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Slowing this thing down is the right move.

Now, get your butt to Mississippi and spend the night trading uhhhhs.
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