Fans Rip Metallica a New One

[BIG_DADDY]

http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/will-metallica.html

[morphius]

Originally Posted by Brock

I agree. I don't believe for a second though, that downloading has anything to do with the industry's inability to replace acts from 30 -40 years ago.

Yup, the industry started pushing alternative bands in the 90's, and alternative bands lose support when they become mainstream and lose a lot of their following. By being alternative they also have to try to sound unique, so you are not going to get many bands that appeal to a large market. Not that 80's rock didn't deserve to die, but really, that and rap were never gonna replace sold out stadium rock.

Seemed like a brilliant business decision to me.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Your stupidity couldn't be any clearer.

If their music "sucked", how did they sell over 100 million albums? How were they able to sell out stadiums worldwide?

And as for Napster, file sharing has absolutely destroyed the music business. Recording studios in New York and Los Angeles are all but non-existent. Bands are no longer given any time to grow because due to marketing and promotion costs, a band must "hit" immediately or go away. Record company staffs have been reduced to just a handful. Hell, the Capitol Records building in Hollywood has been SOLD.

So don't even try to tell me that Metallica was on the wrong side of the file-sharing issue.

You just don't know what the **** you're talking about.

AS usual.

Stop with your holier than thou I live in Hollywood and know all act.

Ask any of the Metallica fans that grew up with the band. People that saw Cliff play. They will all say that And Justice was the last good album the band had. Just because the Black album may have sold well, doesn't mean the original fans liked it, or that it was any good.

Napster didn't destroy shit. The record companies inability to change with technology ****ed them and they deserved it.

[Nightwish]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Stop with your holier than thou I live in Hollywood and know all act.

Ask any of the Metallica fans that grew up with the band. People that saw Cliff play. They will all say that And Justice was the last good album the band had.

Actually, no, we won't all say that. There are three factions of the "original fans" - those who think Master was the last good album, those who think And Justice was the last good album, and those who think that Metallica was the last good album. I'm an "original fan" who first started listening to them just after Ride the Lightning came out. I was already an established fan before Master of Puppets came out. I saw Cliff play live, twice. And you can count me among those who believe that Metallica (aka the Black album) belongs on their good list. And rest assured, there are a huge number of us. Don't make the mistake of assuming that just because you count yourself in one of those three factions, that your faction is the most numerous or that it has the corner on good musical sense.

Overall, I fall between the extremes represented by Dane on one end, and by several of the rest of you on the other end. On the one hand, I fully agree with Metallica on the Napster issue - illegal file sharing is illegal, it's unethical, arguments in its favor are weak at best, and it's wrong, no matter how you slice it. Just because everybody and their brother is doing it doesn't make it okay. If everybody and their brother started sneaking into stores and shoplifting, that wouldn't make it okay to shoplift, either. On the other hand, I also agree with those who say that most of what Metallica has put out since the Black album has been utter garbage. You can call it experimental or pioneering if you want, but I call it lazy, lackadaisical and uninspired. Since Cliff's death, they've basically been floundering around without a head, inconsistent and non-cohesive. I really couldn't give a rat's ass about the business side of things, I don't care if they're in it for the money or not. I don't care if they're making a million bucks per song, or if they're giving it away for free. I just care about whether they are making good music that sounds like there is some imagination behind it. And for many years, they haven't.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Stop with your holier than thou I live in Hollywood and know all act.

Ask any of the Metallica fans that grew up with the band. People that saw Cliff play. They will all say that And Justice was the last good album the band had. Just because the Black album may have sold well, doesn't mean the original fans liked it, or that it was any good.

Napster didn't destroy shit. The record companies inability to change with technology ****ed them and they deserved it.

**** you, Douchebag.

Holier than thou? The Metallica song?

**** off.

I'm glad you advocate theft. It shows who's the real douchebag and it's window into your character.

Nice

Oh, and thanks for your "insight" in the record business. ****ball

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Nightwish

Actually, no, we won't all say that. There are three factions of the "original fans" - those who think Master was the last good album, those who think And Justice was the last good album, and those who think that Metallica was the last good album. I'm an "original fan" who first started listening to them just after Ride the Lightning came out. I was already an established fan before Master of Puppets came out. I saw Cliff play live, twice. And you can count me among those who believe that Metallica (aka the Black album) belongs on their good list. And rest assured, there are a huge number of us. Don't make the mistake of assuming that just because you count yourself in one of those three factions, that your faction is the most numerous or that it has the corner on good musical sense.

Overall, I fall between the extremes represented by Dane on one end, and by several of the rest of you on the other end. On the one hand, I fully agree with Metallica on the Napster issue - illegal file sharing is illegal, it's unethical, arguments in its favor are weak at best, and it's wrong, no matter how you slice it. Just because everybody and their brother is doing it doesn't make it okay. If everybody and their brother started sneaking into stores and shoplifting, that wouldn't make it okay to shoplift, either. On the other hand, I also agree with those who say that most of what Metallica has put out since the Black album has been utter garbage. You can call it experimental or pioneering if you want, but I call it lazy, lackadaisical and uninspired. Since Cliff's death, they've basically been floundering around without a head, inconsistent and non-cohesive. I really couldn't give a rat's ass about the business side of things, I don't care if they're in it for the money or not. I don't care if they're making a million bucks per song, or if they're giving it away for free. I just care about whether they are making good music that sounds like there is some imagination behind it. And for many years, they haven't.

I don't think that the Black record was floundering. Whether you like it or not, it has a direction.

Load & Reload on the other hand sound like studio out-takes for the most part. Songs that aren't quite realized. They really needed to hire another producer to help them to get those songs over the "hump" but the success of the "Black" album was like a monkey on their back.

St. Anger was attempt to get away from Load & Reload but for most people, it was a failure.

If Metallica had really lost the passion for music and their drive to create a great record, they wouldn't have hired Rick Rubin.

Velvet Revolver hired Rick to do their last record and quit on him. The result? A shitty record. Others have "tried" to work with him as well and failed. He's very demanding.

So if Metallica is going to be able to move past their last four releases and release something epic, Rick Rubin is probably the only guy that can help them to realize that.

Hopefully, it'll work.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

How many years did it take for them to even begin to shift from the model they had operated under, and to try to embrace the possibilities the web offered?

That's what I mean by "Half-assed".

They didn't evolve quick enough, and now they are dying.

Doesn't bother me. I don't think I've heard anything new that has impressed me in years.

Well, that's what happens when you have a business run by "Creative" types. People that aren't necessarily concerned with the bottom line. People whose concern is releasing artistic music that appeals to a broad range of people.

Unfortunately as a result, the Big Five (now Big Four) are all essentially run by bean counters. So what happens? Every act that doesn't generate income is cut from the roster. Bands that don't produces huge record sales from their first album are cut. Gone. Finito. Bands and artists are no longer allowed to grow and mature. It's one and done.

So BMG & Sony have merged. All of the smaller companies have been swallowed up by Universal. Margins are slim. And as a result, legendary recording studios are out of business. Sony Music had to let go 55 people at their Mastering Facility in New York City and the previously legendary spot is sold to become condos. Capitol Records, a Hollywood icon for decades was sold by EMI and will go condo. Legendary Capitol Records Studio (home of many Frank Sinatra records) will be gone.

In addition, hundreds of people, friends and acquaintances alike, have been fired and let go all over town. People who dedicated their lives to music.

All of this, so dickbags like Chiefnj can download music for free. Not to mention the overall lack of mainstream music that pales in comparison to the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's in terms of ingenuity, composition and production.

What a great trade-off

[Pitt Gorilla]

Is the new Avenged Sevenfold any good? It sounds like they've gone a bit soft as well.

[morphius]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

All of this, so dickbags like Chiefnj can download music for free. Not to mention the overall lack of mainstream music that pales in comparison to the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's in terms of ingenuity, composition and production.

I still argue that this issue came before the downloading issue, downloading then made the industry pay for their mistakes. You know, like price fixing. Of course the way to do this is to stop internet radio stations from getting big, because we'd hate for our music to be heard in the public so that people would buy it. Then they throw fits like 2 years olds for charging a single dollar for songs, when they have been unable to come up with a decent competitor to itunes.

[little jacob]

they went from great to average with the black album and put out nothing but trash after that. today they are a living, breathing cliche and nothing more.

i think the downloading stuff has hurt music in a lot of ways. but bands like radiohead and nine inch nails going to the free online distribution model could save it. we just don't need the physical media anymore. or if we still do, those days are numbered. cut the bloated companies out of it, get the music to fans without paying the middle man is what the artists and fans both want i think. i dont see how the record companies will have a say but who knows.

of course those acts can only do music on their own because they have the money after their record label period. that crappy garage band you saw at joe's bar last weekend won't be able to release stuff online that has decent production values. maybe now record labels will be for 'adolescent' acts and when people can afford it they will move on.

[Adept Havelock]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Well, that's what happens when you have a business run by "Creative" types. People that aren't necessarily concerned with the bottom line. People whose concern is releasing artistic music that appeals to a broad range of people.

Unfortunately as a result, the Big Five (now Big Four) are all essentially run by bean counters. So what happens? Every act that doesn't generate income is cut from the roster. Bands that don't produces huge record sales from their first album are cut. Gone. Finito. Bands and artists are no longer allowed to grow and mature. It's one and done.

So BMG & Sony have merged. All of the smaller companies have been swallowed up by Universal. Margins are slim. And as a result, legendary recording studios are out of business. Sony Music had to let go 55 people at their Mastering Facility in New York City and the previously legendary spot is sold to become condos. Capitol Records, a Hollywood icon for decades was sold by EMI and will go condo. Legendary Capitol Records Studio (home of many Frank Sinatra records) will be gone.

In addition, hundreds of people, friends and acquaintances alike, have been fired and let go all over town. People who dedicated their lives to music.

All of this, so dickbags like Chiefnj can download music for free. Not to mention the overall lack of mainstream music that pales in comparison to the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's in terms of ingenuity, composition and production.

What a great trade-off

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

They didn't evolve quick enough, and now they are dying.

Doesn't bother me. I don't think I've heard anything new that has impressed me in years.

Sucks for those that lost their jobs, but that happens when you keep your cart hitched to a dying horse.

Just ask programmers in obsolete languages that didn't learn new ones, TV/VCR repair shops, etc.

The moral of the story is don't expect the world to stand still just because you found a place in the sun.

[DaneMcCloud]

Early review:

http://www.rocksound.tv/articles/141...ard-It---.html

UK's Rock Sound and Metal Hammer magazines have posted separate reports on the listening session for the new METALLICA album, which took place earlier today (Wednesday, June 4) in London.

Rock Sound writes: "On first impressions and just one listen, Rock Sound can confirm that the songs we've heard sound very much like classic METALLICA in vibe, harking back to the days of 'Master Of Puppets', '…And Justice For All' (but with bass) and the [self-titled 'black'] album — without sounding dated or tired.

"Of the six tracks Rock Sound heard this afternoon, only one had a working title — 'Flamingo'. With a slow intro, the song was reminiscent of 'Battery' in vibe, with two guitar solos and an undercurrent of melody and groove.

"The first single is an epic power rocker in the vein of 'The Unforgiven', 'Nothing Else Matters' and 'Sanitarium', with a mid-tempo, head-banging section and some THIN LIZZY-esque twin guitar rifRump Rangere.

"Another song features the lyrics, 'Into abyss, you don't exist, you can't resist the Judas kiss'; another features an almost RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE-esque drum 'n' bass undercurrent and lyrics about 'suicide' and 'cyanide'; while the final song we heard, dubbed 'The Song', clocks in at under five minutes and is a galloping thrash attack with quirks, and a sniff of TESTAMENT about it!

"We suspect other song titles could include 'Die Hard', 'Show Your Scars', and 'My Apocalypse' — but we cannot be held responsible if none of these titles or lyrics are accurate!

"Thankfully — there are plenty of Kirk Hammett traditional guitar solos and a decent drum sound. Hetfield's voice sounds in fine form too. All of the songs have many different parts to them, giving the impression that the quartet is revisiting the epic vibe of the band's 'classic' period."

Metal Hammer reports: "What do the songs sound like? Track one, which is only known by the cryptic working title 'Flamingo', opens up on thunderous rolling drums as lead guitar meets them head on, a flaring up in stop-start motion before it pulls itself together in rushes forward in classic thrash style, all crunching 'Fight Fire With Fire' riffs and drilling beats. It takes at least two minutes for James Hetfield's vocals to come in, and while they sound furious, this isn't the grittiest he's ever sounded, more open in tone, but while there's still a memorable vocal line for the 'chorus,' and there is so much going on in the song, and so many ideas thrown in and discarded for the next one that it's hard on first listen to pick out one riff that you're going to remember it by. But with galloping riffs and the return of guitar breaks rising up from out of the grooves you can hear the true METALLICA spirit, even though its as if reflected in mirrored mosaic.

"Track two is at heart an anthemic ballad that recalls 'Fight Fire With Fire' and 'Nothing Else Matters', with a chiming guitar intro, airy vocals and some slightly convoluted, progressive-style bridges that mutate into urgent riffing, more galloping riffs and guitar solos. Again, the song has a number of different sections, but it still sounds massive.

"Track three kicks off on a stop-start riff flecked with Eastern touches, as other bustling guitar lines play off each other and Hetfield's vocals retain the power of old, like some monolithic prophet overlooking events as mid-paced, chugging riffs come in, sounding like an army on the march, methodically shooting anyone in their path.

"Track four is reminiscent of 'Master Of Puppets' with more than a touch of heads-down SLAYER pacing thrown in. After an artillery-lobbing drum-led intro, it quickly sets off on marching, thrash mode, Hetfield's spat vocals taking melodic digressions, as he roars 'Bow down, surrender unto me.' The song's groove carries you along as it opens up into guitar atomospherics that bring LED ZEP to mind. It isn't quite the kind of irresistible monster they've created before, but METALLICA still prove they can still sound lean and epic at the same time, and when the track drops out into the grove mid-way though, you can imagine the chants coming from the crowds live.

"Track five has another strong opening, with an uncharacteristic bouncing groove not a million miles away from RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE making appearances throughout setting off sharp riffs that come up against an irregular barrage of percussion that sets it off briefly on a more melodic path and builds up once again into a thrilling riff-fest mayhem.

"Track six is the 'song', considerably shorter than the others, but full of clinically sharp riffing, more SLAYER-esque parts and galloping grooves, all hustle and bustle with a tinge of Eastern melody thrown in once more.

"Initial impressions is that this is an album that's going to get our blood chugging, but whether it's all we hoped for is going to take more plays to answer. Ultimately we're hugely relieved and pretty damn thrilled, and we can't ****ing wait to hear the rest."

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

Sucks for those that lost their jobs, but that happens when you keep your cart hitched to a dying horse.

Just ask programmers in obsolete languages that didn't learn new ones, TV/VCR repair shops, etc.

The moral of the story is don't expect the world to stand still just because you found a place in the sun.

No, the moral of the story is to never underestimate people's willingness to put their morals aside for personal gain.

File sharing is and was illegal but that didn't stop hundreds of millions of files from being exchanged without proper compensation to the copyright and master rights owners.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I don't think that the Black record was floundering. Whether you like it or not, it has a direction.

Load & Reload on the other hand sound like studio out-takes for the most part. Songs that aren't quite realized. They really needed to hire another producer to help them to get those songs over the "hump" but the success of the "Black" album was like a monkey on their back.

St. Anger was attempt to get away from Load & Reload but for most people, it was a failure.

If Metallica had really lost the passion for music and their drive to create a great record, they wouldn't have hired Rick Rubin.

Velvet Revolver hired Rick to do their last record and quit on him. The result? A shitty record. Others have "tried" to work with him as well and failed. He's very demanding.

So if Metallica is going to be able to move past their last four releases and release something epic, Rick Rubin is probably the only guy that can help them to realize that.

Hopefully, it'll work.

Wait, you think Libertad is shitty? You obviously have a different idea of good and shitty than I.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

**** you, Douchebag.

Holier than thou? The Metallica song?

**** off.

I'm glad you advocate theft. It shows who's the real douchebag and it's window into your character.

Nice

Oh, and thanks for your "insight" in the record business. ****ball

Yes Dane, you do come across as an arrogant prick. I'm not saying that to be mean. Just telling it like it is. Obviously, I'm not the only one who thinks this.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Lzen

Wait, you think Libertad is shitty? You obviously have a different idea of good and shitty than I.

Yes, I think Libertad is a fairly weak album (and the album's sales indicate it wasn't much liked).

Much like its predecessor, it's not "dangerous". It's safe, boring and predictable. If "name" players weren't attached, no one would even know it existed.