The Official "Lost" the series discussion

[Deberg_1990]

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Actually, I think you're the type of person that needs a straight line explanation and are unable to think outside of the "box".

I'm happy for you but we'll just agree to disagree, okay?

I don't know why you think your interpretation is 'thinking outside the box.' Honestly, I don't know how your interpretation is all that different than my 'theory' that this was a show about nothing more than being a show on ABC from 2004-2010. If it's all in Jack's mind, then it's all just a story, something to be told episodically on prime time television. No one else means jack or squat, all their character arcs are just stories dreamed up about strangers. 'What they died for' means jack squat. Whatever shortcomings the series has in retrospect, it's exponentially more satisfying than the story you're telling.

[Moobs]

Now that I've digested the finale a bit, I think I'm happy all of Lost's mysteries were either not answered, or left to interpretation. I certainly knew coming in that this would most likely be the case, but I'm surprised that so many people expected differently.

If they had a two and a half finale of all answers, I a) don't think it would have been a good show and b) taken some of the fun away of what Lost has been this whole time.

It was a very thought provoking series, that existed outside of its time slot, on the internet, water cooler, etc. It's going to be fun to rewatch the series and let the imagination flow again.

[kysirsoze]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I'm not convinced the island was "real". IMO, the plane crashed and the survivors all entered (I won't call it purgatory) a new world where they must meet their own "tests" and "challenges" before they are willing to move on again toward the light.

Obviously you're free to believe what you want, but "they're all dead" is the one outcome that the creators ruled out almost from the beginning and continue to deny.

[kysirsoze]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

If it wasn't a "dream" then why did Jack have to die in the exact same spot as the beginning of the story?

He didn't have to. It was just a cool bookend image for the show.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

Obviously you're free to believe what you want, but "they're all dead" is the one outcome that the creators ruled out almost from the beginning and continue to deny.

They also ruled out time travel one time.

[irishjayhawk]

People are seriously advancing it was Jack's dream?

[Mr Luzcious]

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

People are seriously advancing it was Jack's dream?

Some people are really, really over-thinking this.

[irishjayhawk]

Originally Posted by Mr Luzcious

Some people are really, really over-thinking this.

That and a reliance on zero evidence.

[irishjayhawk]

My quick takes:

• Alt timeline being a psuedo-heaven really killed the amazing potential and climactic nature of Dez's mission. In fact, I thought his mission would make a great entire season.
• Superb character moments. I really enjoyed all of the flashes.
• Giachinno's score was fantastic, as usual.
• Last five minutes are the only question mark within the finale.
• I still think the show had a good season left in its tank. This season opened up some awesome possibilities but only half baked them. (Dez mission, for one)
• The cyclical set up (Hurley = Jacob, Jack = MIB, Ben = Richard) was fitting.
• LAPIDUS!
  
• Dez needs his own show.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

That and a reliance on zero evidence.

Here is theory from the Dark UFO website. Call it a dream, Narnia, Oz, whatever you want:

Anyway, my immediate reaction to the ending of the episode was, "Oh, this has a lot in common with The Chronicles of Narnia. I wonder if the writers are conscious of that?" They did name Charlotte after C.S. Lewis, the author of The Chronicles of Narnia, so it seemed likely. But after only about three seconds of browsing on Lostpedia, I found this little interview with Darlton where they said the following: "So much of LOST is based on our shared love for the great stories of our childhood (Narnia for Carlton, Oz for Damon)." And the events and themes of Oz really line up with Lost's ending, too.

Concerning, C.S. Lewis's work, Narnia is a magical world that acts as a sort of escape for many different people from our world. Narnia is often in need of protection from these people, but it also teaches them much about themselves and offers them second chances to grow as individuals. The point, though, is that the version of Narnia that the characters visit is not the definitive Narnia. There is in fact a more perfect Narnia beyond it. And beyond that, it's implied that there exists an even more wonderful Narnia. As they continued to move in, each world is bigger and more beautiful than the one before it.

Oz echoes the same theme, though a little more simply. While in the movie, Dorothy comes back to Kansas, in the books, she eventually goes back to Oz along with Uncle Henry and Aunt Em, and they reside there permanently. In both cases, the characters could be said to have "died" and moved on to the next world, but whether they actually did die or not is sort of unimportant. They've traveled from one reality to the next - call it death, or whatever you wish.

This is exactly what happened on Lost, and has been happening since the beginning. The first world that we were shown was the characters' lives before the crash. They were weighed down by many struggles and disappointments and issues. Then the crash happens and they move to the next world. Some will say that the vehicle of this transportation was death - they all died in the plane crash, and were moved to the next world, a sort of Purgatory Step One, or something. But it doesn't really matter whether they actually all died in the crash or not, because they next world - the island - is real to them, alive or dead.

The island is a more perfect world than their previous one. Note: it's not perfect, it's more perfect. Their lives are for the most part better. They gain a sense of place and community. Many apply the skills and personalities from the former world while letting going of the baggage that weighed them down. They do this by first remembering the other world. What do you think the flashbacks that we were shown all of seasons 1, 2and 3 actually were? We were watching the characters reflect on their previous lives and let go of the bad parts in order to move forward with the good parts, just as they did in the flash-sideways last night.

I would like to suggest that the island is "magical" in order to facilitate a more perfect world. There is an energy on the island. The science people, like the Dharma folk, will explain it as electromagnetic anomalies, the mythological or religious will explain it as the heart of the island, etc., but its fulfills a role. It heals John Locke's paralysis. It allows Jin and Sun to have a baby. It gives Jack something worth protecting, saving and fixing.

I think the finale makes the argument that at some point, every character is ready for the next world. Some take longer than others. Some may even regress to a worse world, now and then (as I believe may have been what happened to the Oceanic 6 when they left the island). Some may be forced to repeat a world in a different role (as I believe could be a more proper explanation for the whispers - they are people who aren't quite ready for the next world, and will only let go of the necessary baggage by aiding and guiding others to the next world). But eventually, everyone gets there.

The flash-sideways timeline (that name doesn't really fit anymore, but I'll use it for convenience) does, I think, fit my definition of a more perfect world than the island reality. The characters are for the most part happier and more well-rounded. I know what you're thinking, "But how can the flash-sideways be more special than a magical island?" To which I answer, "the flash-sideways is absolutely magical, too." And I'm not just saying that because it's inhabited by dead people. This reality has been breaking the rules of a normal universe all season. At least a week elapses for John Locke, Desmond, Kate, Sawyer, Claire and Hurley between 815 landing and the concert happening. Sayid, Jin and Sun, though, only go through one or two days. Sun and Jin are apprehended by Keamy the morning after arriving in Los Angeles. That same day, Sun is accidentally shot. She arrives at the hospital at the same time as John Locke, who was run over by Desmond at least a week after getting back from the flight (John couldn't have been fired, gone to the temp agency, been placed as a substitute teacher and substituted for a variety of classes all within 24 hours of getting back to LA).

Also, when John agrees to the surgery it is already the day of the concert. There is no way he could have gone through all the prep work and actually undergone the surgery that same night. Remember how long Jack prepared for his surgery on the Italian Guy in the flashbacks of "The Hunting Party"? I'm not trying to point out continuity errors, I'm just arguing that the flash-sideways has a magical timelessness to it that makes it special.

Maybe the flash-sideways wasn't a proper next world. Maybe it was more of a waiting room of sorts. But in order to progress through it, the characters had to do basically the same thing that they did on the island: have flashbacks to the previous world. And then, once they've used these memories to correct the flaws that made them unworthy and unready for the next world, it's time to move on.

We don't know what the next world is like. Or any of the worlds after, for that matter. What we've seen was just progress - a process of perfecting flaws, growing closer together, and moving into a better and better life.

[irishjayhawk]

Well, at least that views both timelines as separate worlds, as it were.

I disagree, but it is a good take.

[kysirsoze]

I like that take, but I would maintain that the island was still a part of the living world. Otherwise I don't see how they could go back ala the flash forwards. I suppose that could be a world closer resembling hell, but I don't buy it. Mainly because it was in that world that Kate found her purpose and the thing that took her out of Jacob's candidacy. Motherhood.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Maybe the flash-sideways wasn't a proper next world. Maybe it was more of a waiting room of sorts. But in order to progress through it, the characters had to do basically the same thing that they did on the island: have flashbacks to the previous world. And then, once they've used these memories to correct the flaws that made them unworthy and unready for the next world, it's time to move on.

We don't know what the next world is like. Or any of the worlds after, for that matter. What we've seen was just progress - a process of perfecting flaws, growing closer together, and moving into a better and better life.

I was having similar thoughts (and I know very little about the show) until the explanation of it all from Jack's dad. I felt like there could be a next world, perhaps any number of additional alt-timelines, in which things would play out differently but end pretty much the same. It alluded to reincarnation, yes, but more strongly to Nietzche's notion of the Eternal Recurrence.

I spoke that thought out loud last night, at which point my friend Nalla told me "Stop it. The minute you try and bring legitimate philosophy into this is the minute that the show's creators win." Then we went on to making jokes about how the Lost writers didn't really have a good idea of what they show meant. Then we watched Breaking Bad, a decidedly non-spiritual show that consequently has things to say about the world (a non-spiritual one) that real humans live in.

I plan on watching all of LOST right after I finish playing through Super Mario Galaxy 2 just to see how off I am about my impressions.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I was having similar thoughts (and I know very little about the show) until the explanation of it all from Jack's dad. I felt like there could be a next world, perhaps any number of additional alt-timelines, in which things would play out differently but end pretty much the same. It alluded to reincarnation, yes, but more strongly to Nietzche's notion of the Eternal Recurrence.

I spoke that thought out loud last night, at which point my friend Nalla told me "Stop it. The minute you try and bring legitimate philosophy into this is the minute that the show's creators win." Then we went on to making jokes about how the Lost writers didn't really have a good idea of what they show meant. Then we watched Breaking Bad, a decidedly non-spiritual show that consequently has things to say about the world (a non-spiritual one) that real humans live in.

I plan on watching all of LOST right after I finish playing through Super Mario Galaxy 2 just to see how off I am about my impressions.

I wish you hadn't watched the finale, but there will still be some good stuff. Also SMG2 ftw.
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[007]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I don't know why you think your interpretation is 'thinking outside the box.' Honestly, I don't know how your interpretation is all that different than my 'theory' that this was a show about nothing more than being a show on ABC from 2004-2010. If it's all in Jack's mind, then it's all just a story, something to be told episodically on prime time television. No one else means jack or squat, all their character arcs are just stories dreamed up about strangers. 'What they died for' means jack squat. Whatever shortcomings the series has in retrospect, it's exponentially more satisfying than the story you're telling.

sorry, but I am not interested in seeing jack squat.