Royals 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread - Page 303

duncan_idaho · 10:01 AM

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

siberian khatru · 05-21-2013, 10:55 AM

Why have the Royals messed up so many can't-miss prospects?

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...id=grantland33

duncan_idaho · 05-21-2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown

AAAA Players.

Replacement level (what a AAAA player is) would be an improvement over Getz and Francoeur, for sure. And even over what Moustakas has done outside a two-week stint.

Prison Bitch · 05-21-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown

AAAA Players.

What do you call Moustakas at this point?

Fansy the Famous Bard · 05-21-2013, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

What do you call Moustakas at this point?

I still call him Moose.

Mr. Laz · 05-21-2013, 12:35 PM

both Moose and Hosmer are looking like AAAA players right now

good defense
hit well in minors but can't hit in the majors

yes,yes ... they might turn it around

still doesn't explain why virtually every player we have goes through an extended development time.

duncan_idaho · 05-21-2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

both Moose and Hosmer are looking like AAAA players right now

good defense
hit well in minors but can't hit in the majors

yes,yes ... they might turn it around

still doesn't explain why virtually every player we have goes through an extended development time.

Much too early to stick that label on them. They're 23 and 24 years old and have had sustained periods of major success in the majors leagues (Moustakas for 3 months last year, Hosmer in 2011). Quad-A guys rarely put up positive samples THAT big.

My best guess on the reeruned development of Royals minor league guys is a combination of two factors. 1) That the team has been SO bad, they have been asked to be THE guy too early and have not been able to handle the early pressure. 2) That the way hitters are being developed is not good enough (it seems like bad habits are allowed in the minors for KC as long as the talent trumps that bad habit, but that gets exposed at the MLB level).

Prison Bitch · 05-21-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

I still call him Moose.

MOOOOOOOOOSE!

Prison Bitch · 05-21-2013, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

Why have the Royals messed up so many can't-miss prospects?

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...id=grantland33

This is exactly what I posted the other day - where the hell is this vaunted "greatest farm system of all time"? Seriously where is it? We had 3 top-10 guys as young hitters. None of them are contributing. (You can say Myers is as trade bait but if he were still here, he'd be down in Omaha anyway)

Here's the top-20. Look at the Royals. Look at practically everyone else. And tell me we're not the problem. I dare you to. You can't say the authors screwed this up because the other names aren't pathetic losers:

2011 TOP 100 PROSPECTS
1. Bryce Harper, of, Nationals
2. Mike Trout, of, Angels
3. Jesus Montero, c, Yankees
4. Domonic Brown, of, Phillies
5. Julio Teheran, rhp, Braves
6. Jeremy Hellickson, rhp, Rays
7. Aroldis Chapman, lhp, Reds
8. Eric Hosmer, 1b, Royals
9. Mike Moustakas, 3b, Royals
10. Wil Myers, of/c, Royals
11. Jameson Taillon, rhp, Pirates
12. Dustin Ackley, 2b, Mariners
13. Shelby Miller, rhp, Cardinals
14. Manny Machado, ss, Orioles
15. Matt Moore, lhp, Rays
16. Michael Pineda, rhp, Mariners
17. Freddie Freeman, 1b, Braves
18. John Lamb, lhp, Royals
19. Mike Montgomery, lhp, Royals
20. Chris Sale, lhp, White Sox

Fansy the Famous Bard · 05-21-2013, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

This is exactly what I posted the other day - where the hell is this vaunted "greatest farm system of all time"? Seriously where is it? We had 3 top-10 guys as young hitters. None of them are contributing. (You can say Myers is as trade bait but if he were still here, he'd be down in Omaha anyway)

Here's the top-20. Look at the Royals. Look at practically everyone else. And tell me we're not the problem. I dare you to. You can't say the authors screwed this up because the other names aren't pathetic losers:

2011 TOP 100 PROSPECTS
1. Bryce Harper, of, Nationals
2. Mike Trout, of, Angels
3. Jesus Montero, c, Yankees
4. Domonic Brown, of, Phillies
5. Julio Teheran, rhp, Braves
6. Jeremy Hellickson, rhp, Rays
7. Aroldis Chapman, lhp, Reds
8. Eric Hosmer, 1b, Royals
9. Mike Moustakas, 3b, Royals
10. Wil Myers, of/c, Royals
11. Jameson Taillon, rhp, Pirates
12. Dustin Ackley, 2b, Mariners
13. Shelby Miller, rhp, Cardinals
14. Manny Machado, ss, Orioles
15. Matt Moore, lhp, Rays
16. Michael Pineda, rhp, Mariners
17. Freddie Freeman, 1b, Braves
18. John Lamb, lhp, Royals
19. Mike Montgomery, lhp, Royals
20. Chris Sale, lhp, White Sox

Well, you all know how the song goes. "Five of these are not like the oooothers".

**Bowser** · 05-21-2013, 01:56 PM

This is a question that has been debated over the years, but I'll ask again -

Is Dayton Moore bad to below average at his job, or is he hamstrung by the Glass family?

siberian khatru · 05-21-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser

This is a question that has been debated over the years, but I'll ask again -

Is Dayton Moore bad to below average at his job, or is he hamstrung by the Glass family?

I would submit that giving a 2-year contract to Jeff Francoeur and offering arbitration to Luke Hochevar suggests that increasing Moore's budget wouldn't improve his decision-making, seeing as how he's already wasting limited resources. Give him more money and he might add a year to Frenchy's contract.

Glass gave him a lot more money for scouting, player development and signing draft picks, Moore's supposed strong suit. And that pipeline has produced ... ?

Salvy Perez is the studliest, and the irony is he wasn't one of the Golden Prospects. Moore also does a good job building a bullpen.

Prison Bitch · 05-21-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

Well, you all know how the song goes. "Five of these are not like the oooothers".

51. Christian Colon, ss, Royals
52. Jose Iglesias, ss, Red Sox
53. Nick Franklin, ss/2b, Mariners
54. Jason Kipnis, 2b, Indians
55. Zack Wheeler, rhp, Giants
56. Brody Colvin, rhp, Phillies
57. Jean Segura, 2b, Angels
58. Simon Castro, rhp, Padres
59. Wilmer Flores, ss, Mets
60. Miguel Sano, 3b/ss, Twins

Fansy the Famous Bard · 05-21-2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

both Moose and Hosmer are looking like AAAA players right now

good defense
hit well in minors but can't hit in the majors

yes,yes ... they might turn it around

still doesn't explain why virtually every player we have goes through an extended development time.

What's so frustrating is you hear about the good defense that Hosmer is supposed to bring.. That he's going to win gold gloves good.

I will contend he will make a good play every so often, and he's a very good athlete as far as 1basemen go... But the guy consistently makes mistakes and misses balls that even above average 1basemen dig out routinely...

I think the myth of him being a great 1basemen is based on his athletic ability and the fact that he makes good to great plays from time to time... that his scouting report shows that he CAN make those plays and that he's going to grow into an excellent fielder... I certainly don't think he's anywhere near that right now, though. His consistency is just nowhere near what it needs to be. That's just my feelings on the matter...

Fansy the Famous Bard · 05-21-2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser

This is a question that has been debated over the years, but I'll ask again -

Is Dayton Moore bad to below average at his job, or is he hamstrung by the Glass family?

He's bad.

Fansy the Famous Bard · 05-21-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

51. Christian Colon, ss, Royals

holy balls that gif is disturbing.

12-11-2012, 09:59 AM
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1780308	2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise. Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk. At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor. Burning questions updates below. Burning Questions for 2013: 1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation? Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory. 2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door? Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster. 3) Does Hosmer bounce back? Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far. 4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012? Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go. 5) Who regresses? Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years. 6) Who plays 2B? Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it. 7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level? Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha 8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014? Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014. 9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse? Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before. 10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers? Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it? Last edited by duncan_idaho; 07-15-2013 at 10:01 AM..
Posts: 21,077

05-21-2013, 10:55 AM	#4531
siberian khatru 21st Century Schizoid Fan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Gates of Delirium Casino cash: $2574950	Why have the Royals messed up so many can't-miss prospects? http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...id=grantland33
Posts: 69,130

05-21-2013, 12:35 PM	#4535
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	both Moose and Hosmer are looking like AAAA players right now good defense hit well in minors but can't hit in the majors yes,yes ... they might turn it around still doesn't explain why virtually every player we have goes through an extended development time. __________________
Posts: 95,626

05-21-2013, 01:56 PM	#4540
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3471616	This is a question that has been debated over the years, but I'll ask again - Is Dayton Moore bad to below average at his job, or is he hamstrung by the Glass family?
Posts: 100,581