Cardinals ***Official St. Louis Cardinals 2013 Postseason Thread*** - Page 238

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-04-2013, 11:46 AM

The Season thread has started crapping out. Post about the Birds here.

Swanman · 10-31-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Show me a post where I talked about how Wong is a future star. You dumbass, I'm more down on Wong as a long term player than any other Cardinal fan that posts here. If you're going to try to troll, at least get the ****ing basics right.

There has been a theme in this thread that the Cardinals front office is way overvaluing many of the prospects in the system, so I don't know where he got that garbage.

Amnorix · 10-31-2013, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Short series will lead to fluky shit like what happened over the last week.

A 7 games series isn't a "short" series. Describing it as such makes no sense.

Obviously, any period of just 7 games is a small sample size, and should not be used exclusively to make any long term planning/decisions unless something truly extraordinary is involved.

But what you posted doesn't answer my statement. I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Agreed that you guys really need Beltran. Just as a casual fan, there weren't many guys in that lineup that worried me. Beltran was the main one. I don't think that's a bat you can afford to lose.

Obviously the Cards have a good lineup overall. They led the NL in runs, I believe, correct? But while I'm not a huge believer in "clutch" performance, at some point one needs to acknowledge that some players, for whatever reason, tend to do better in critical situations. Beltran is a pretty well proven post-season performer and I would think he's not a guy you'd want to lose, which is all I was saying.

Note also that not many guys in the Red Sox lineup were terribly worrisome either, in my view. I'm sure you guys saw guys like Drew, Ross etc. as automatic outs, by and large, though each had a few critical hits here and there, which was a huge difference-maker in the series, as the bottom third of the Cards order gave them, literally, nothing.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-31-2013, 01:12 PM

It shouldn't need to be scrawled out in crayon. If the Cardinals had five of the six best hitters in the series, you should have been worried regardless of what happened after the fact. To not be worried is to display complete ignorance of what you're watching.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-31-2013, 01:16 PM

I don't know of anyone who would view Drew as an automatic out. You can't take anyone for granted in the playoffs. Just ask us who Jerry Hairston, Craig Counsell, and Marco Scutaro are.

Amnorix · 10-31-2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It shouldn't need to be scrawled out in crayon. If the Cardinals had five of the six best hitters in the series, you should have been worried regardless of what happened after the fact. To not be worried is to display complete ignorance of what you're watching.

Ignorance of the Cardinals hitters? Yes, I have that. Did I not mention that I don't watch much baseball? If not, let me say it again -- I don't watch much baseball. Like none, really. It's a boring sport with long, boring games played during a long, boring season. Wake me when the playoffs start.

By game 5/6, I knew who I needed to be worried about on the Cards based on how they were performing in that series. And I knew that Drew wasn't exactly lighting it up.

And obviously even Bucky F'ing Dent can hit a home run, and every MLB hitter is potentially going to get a hit, but nobody will confuse Drew for Papi, or Freese for Beltran or Molina. After all, there's a reason they're hitting in the 7 or 8 spots.

Prison Bitch · 10-31-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swanman

There has been a theme in this thread that the Cardinals front office is way overvaluing many of the prospects in the system, so I don't know where he got that garbage.

I got it from Hamas' own words on the subject at the trade deadline. He said (sensibly) that he wouldn't trade Wong for Santana. I'm with him there. But he then called Wong a "10-12 WAR player and likely more". Assuming 6 years of service, he's arguing Wong is a 2+ WAR player every year he's going to be in STL including his first couple years as a young player.

That is NOT being down on a player long term in the least.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...na#post9848595

Just Passin' By · 10-31-2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Normally our farm system is decent, but I don't know the current state of things. Ellsbury is probably gone, and Drew I don't see as a great loss. Bogaerts moves to SS and Middlebrooks back to third, so that's fine.

1st base is a question mark as well. Napoli or someone else.

Again, not sure this team is built for sustained, long term success, but for now, I'll just enjoy the championship.

Baseball America had the Red Sox farm system rated #1 in 2013.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/major...act-potential/

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-31-2013, 03:15 PM

I believe this is just a fansite, (I've never heard of it) so consider the source and don't shoot the messenger:

Quote:

http://www.stlcardinalbaseball.com/m...ller-situation

DJ's left nut · 10-31-2013, 03:30 PM

Done.

But it seems extremely unlikely.

Miller wouldn't be enough for Profar, but Miller and Martinez might be.

rolltide2014 · 10-31-2013, 04:17 PM

For what it's worth, I say move Miller and Adams for Profar, if that's what it takes. Keep Craig at 1B and go out and try to bring in a CF, although I'd have to look and see who would even be available. I'm not sold on OT handling CF for 140+ games, and I don't want Jay there either.

O.city · 10-31-2013, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Done.

But it seems extremely unlikely.

Miller wouldn't be enough for Profar, but Miller and Martinez might be.

Would Miller and Adams be?

Frankly, If I were moving those two, I'd throw in Freese and Lynn and call up the Rockies about Tulo.

DJ's left nut · 10-31-2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Would Miller and Adams be?

Frankly, If I were moving those two, I'd throw in Freese and Lynn and call up the Rockies about Tulo.

Adams, while he struggled mightily, is too much to give up, IMO.

We're going to need Craig in RF and I still like Adams at 1b long-term. I love a big lefty slugger in the lineup and Adams is simply a better defensive 1b than Craig. Hell, he might actually be a better baserunner than Craig (who was a hideous baserunner even before the injury).

Adams is a legit ballplayer. Besides, his postseason likely murdered his trade value anyway.

We have arms in the system, we don't have many bats. I'd give another arm up before I'd give up Adams.

And I'd gamble on the come with Profar before I went after Tulo. Tulo has some split issues of his own, not to mention a massive contract and an obvious injury history. Player for player, given our payroll structure, I'd take Profar over Tulo.

O.city · 10-31-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Adams, while he struggled mightily, is too much to give up, IMO.

We're going to need Craig in RF and I still like Adams at 1b long-term. I love a big lefty slugger in the lineup and Adams is simply a better defensive 1b than Craig. Hell, he might actually be a better baserunner than Craig (who was a hideous baserunner even before the injury).

Adams is a legit ballplayer. Besides, his postseason likely murdered his trade value anyway.

We have arms in the system, we don't have many bats. I'd give another arm up before I'd give up Adams.

And I'd gamble on the come with Profar before I went after Tulo. Tulo has some split issues of his own, not to mention a massive contract and an obvious injury history. Player for player, given our payroll structure, I'd take Profar over Tulo.

I'm just not as big on Adams as you.

Can't hit LH pitching very well, has a long swing etc.

I just hate moving Martinez, I'd see if they'd take Jenkins and Lynn before that.

O.city · 10-31-2013, 04:32 PM

However, if you can keep Beltran, while also gaining a legit SS and keeping Adams and Craig, I'd be all for that.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-31-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Baseball America had the Red Sox farm system rated #1 in 2013.

No, it didn't.

10-04-2013, 11:46 AM
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	*Official St. Louis Cardinals 2013 Postseason Thread* The Season thread has started crapping out. Post about the Birds here.
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10-31-2013, 01:12 PM	#3558
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	It shouldn't need to be scrawled out in crayon. If the Cardinals had five of the six best hitters in the series, you should have been worried regardless of what happened after the fact. To not be worried is to display complete ignorance of what you're watching. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,825

10-31-2013, 01:16 PM	#3559
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	I don't know of anyone who would view Drew as an automatic out. You can't take anyone for granted in the playoffs. Just ask us who Jerry Hairston, Craig Counsell, and Marco Scutaro are. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,825

10-31-2013, 03:30 PM	#3564
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $3049099	Done. But it seems extremely unlikely. Miller wouldn't be enough for Profar, but Miller and Martinez might be. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,158

10-31-2013, 04:17 PM	#3565
rolltide2014 Starter Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Bloomington, IL Casino cash: $10011695	For what it's worth, I say move Miller and Adams for Profar, if that's what it takes. Keep Craig at 1B and go out and try to bring in a CF, although I'd have to look and see who would even be available. I'm not sold on OT handling CF for 140+ games, and I don't want Jay there either.
Posts: 373

10-31-2013, 04:32 PM	#3569
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2794064	However, if you can keep Beltran, while also gaining a legit SS and keeping Adams and Craig, I'd be all for that.
Posts: 81,189