Kevin Kietzman's Sermon Today on 810 Sports - Page 3

KCJohnny · 12-31-2007, 04:04 PM

KK was in rare form today excoriating King Carl's failure to deliver on the main SB ingredient: a franchise QB.

Among KK's points (and I'm posting them for discussion, not neccessarily aggreeing with them):

SB winning teams build around a franchise QB; not a TE (Gonzalez) or OLT
Denver built its team around Elway; result: 5 SBs
Brady and 4 other Pats are the only constants since 2001; the other 48 players have all been imported to build around Brady
The Colts have 7 #1 picks on their squad: QB, RB, TE, WRS and a CB - no OLT, no LBs/DTs, etc...
Conventional wisdom: 3 of the top 10 draft prospects are QBs
Brodie Croyle is not the QBotF; he is < Jake Plummer
Paying LJ $19 mil was a colossal blunder
Quality OLmen can be selected in the 3-7th rounds
Carl's job might not be as safe as he is telling the media
Herm may resign if he can't get sufficient control to turn things around; he will be hired again in the NFL if that happens
Clark Hunt will address the media next week
A major Chiefs announcement is pending (?)
Solari is as good as gone (will not accept demotion to OL coach)
Chiefs must draft a QB #1 or forget a SB; they may get another 11-5 early exit, but no SB w/o a franchise QB
15 of the last 19 years the Chiefs have had a SB-caliber OL but not the QB to go with it; 20 NFL teams currently have OLs good enough to win a SB but very few have the QB

It was rather disturbing to listen to KK's severe appraisal of young Mr. Croyle. He deplored Croyle's performance in every aspect, and said a strong arm is not enough. 0-6 was plenty of opportunity to see if the potential is there and it clearly is not. He identified Croyle's holding onto the ball, poor reads, missing open receivers, throwing behind the receiver, etc... as performance weaknesses and then he went into the usual riffing about Croyle's durability.

It was pretty compelling the way KK presented it. I agree with much but not sure Croyle can't improve. I was deeply disappointed with Brodie's performance yesterday but 2 things jumped out at me:

1. Gonzo and Bowe dropped about 7 passes between them;

2. Until Croyle learns the touch pass, he's never gonna make it in the NFL. Throwing lazer darts from 5 yards away is stupid.

Happy New Year,
KCJ

Archie Bunker · 12-31-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Yep I agree. We are in position to take either Ryan or Woodson and we need to go for it

I'm starting to agree with you. If Ryan or Woodson is there I would make the pick and hit the OL in the 2nd.

Let Croyle start until the rookie is ready and see what happens. If Croyle pans out then the Chiefs have a nice trade chip down the road.

**dirk digler** · 12-31-2007, 04:30 PM

Interesting question by KK would the Chiefs win yesterday with Damon Huard?

I think yes which says everything I need to know about Croyle

bowener · 12-31-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger

The entire premise is flawed. Winning a Super Bowl is not Peterson's goal.

As a student of philosophy, I love your summation.

KCJohnny · 12-31-2007, 04:31 PM

Another variable no one is talking about is the offensive system next year. KK believes Solari is history. What if the new OC comes in here and wants to run a variation of the Left Coast Offense? Can Croyle run the LCO? That makes acquiring a tested QB like McNabb or Chad all the more attractive to the FO.

In my mind, Croyle's greatest weakness is his inability to see the deep receivers. His YPA average is awful - more than a yard less than Huard's whom most people on this forum (ignorantly) castigate as a checkdown QB. Huard is a reasonably complete, mature QB who did just about everything that could be done with this O.

If we go to the LCO in '08 then a short-range semi-mobile QB like Croyle may succeed. If we stay with the vertical attack-the-seams Coryell system, I'd rather have a crusty old Huard who can throw the 40 yd attempt a few times than a QB getting about 5.7 yards per attempt.

Mecca · 12-31-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Interesting question by KK would the Chiefs win yesterday with Damon Huard?

I think yes which says everything I need to know about Croyle

That's kind of where I've gotten with it, it's not about wanting to play Huard, it's about seeing that Croyle is actually worse than he is...

I didn't think that when I watched other young QB's play. I didn't watch Carson Palmer and think "Jon Kitna would have won this game".

Eleazar · 12-31-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

Another variable no one is talking about is the offensive system next year. KK believes Solari is history. What if the new OC comes in here and wants to run a variation of the Left Coast Offense? Can Croyle run the LCO? That makes acquiring a tested QB like McNabb or Chad all the more attractive to the FO.

What is your deal? 20 years of futility and washed up QBs and you want to try the same formula all over again? You actually WANT McNabb or Pennington?

Ughhhhhh this just makes me sick to even argue about. How many years do we have to fail doing things the same reeruned way over and over while other teams win championships before people realize we ought to try it a different way?

FFFFFFOOCKKK

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-31-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Interesting question by KK would the Chiefs win yesterday with Damon Huard?

I think yes which says everything I need to know about Croyle

Then you didn't watch the game.

I don't know what the team sack record is for one game, but the Jets might have destroyed it yesterday had Huard played.

3 out of every 4 pass attempts, Croyle was running for his life.

Huard wouldn't have been able to avoid that pressure.

Sorry, it's not even debatable, IMO.

bowener · 12-31-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I have a really hard time trusting a guy when with the same cast of players Damon Huard actually played better.....if Croyle had finished that Detroit game we'd have lost 40-3.

This makes me very sad... because it is true.

WilliamTheIrish · 12-31-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

If we go to the LCO in '08 then a short-range semi-mobile QB like Croyle may succeed. If we stay with the vertical attack-the-seams Coryell system, I'd rather have a crusty old Huard who can throw the 40 yd attempt a few times than a QB getting about 5.7 yards per attempt.

John,

We did not run an "attack the seams" Coryell offense. I'm not sure exactly what you'd call our offense. I mean I can think of several names unfit for print....

**dirk digler** · 12-31-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Then you didn't watch the game.

I don't know what the team sack record is for one game, but the Jets might have destroyed it yesterday had Huard played.

3 out of every 4 pass attempts, Croyle was running for his life.

Huard wouldn't have been able to avoid that pressure.

Sorry, it's not even debatable, IMO.

I watched the game and I understand the line is horrible but Damon actually throws the ball down the field alot more than Brodie. Last week he came in and almost won the game for us even though Croyle was losing 16-0 when he got hurt

**Donger** · 12-31-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

What is your deal? 20 years of futility and washed up QBs and you want to try the same formula all over again? You actually WANT McNabb or Pennington?

Ughhhhhh this just makes me sick to even argue about. How many years do we have to fail doing things while other teams win championships before people realize we ought to try it a different way?

FFFFFFOOCKKK

A turd with a pretty ribbon wrapped around it is still a turd.

patteeu · 12-31-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

* SB winning teams build around a franchise QB; not a TE (Gonzalez) or OLT

I wonder what his basis for saying this is. The other day I looked up all 41 winning superbowl lineups and found more LTs who started their careers with and were developed by the winning team than there were QBs.

Quote:

*Brady and 4 other Pats are the only constants since 2001

One of the other 4 players that have been constants for that team is Matt Light, LT.

Quote:

* Quality OLmen can be selected in the 3-7th rounds

While true, out of something like 28 individuals who have started at LT for winning superbowl teams, 15 of them were taken in rounds 1 or 2.

bowener · 12-31-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

[*]A major Chiefs announcement is pending (?)

Is it: we are trading for Pennington or McNabb? Because I can see that being the announcement if we keep Czar Carl on his throne.

KCJohnny · 12-31-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

What is your deal? 20 years of futility and washed up QBs and you want to try the same formula all over again? You actually WANT McNabb or Pennington?

Ughhhhhh this just makes me sick to even argue about. How many years do we have to fail doing things while other teams win championships before people realize we ought to try it a different way?

FFFFFFOOCKKK

Dude, relax. We all want the same thing - a sho 'nuff franchise QB who can be developed in 3 years or less.

My point was the new O/C (should Solari be released) may bring in a new system that will/won't fit the personnel we have now. Look no further than the 2000 Chiefs. We had a 4,000 yd PB QB and the #5 passing attack in the NFL. Vermiel came in and did not like Grbac for his Ramifization plan and had Trent Green in mind all along. The rest is history.

So the missing variable here is who will run the Chiefs offense and what kind of QB will fit that system? You're kidding yourself if you can't see Chad Pennington somewhere in that scenario...

Mecca · 12-31-2007, 04:39 PM

Now I'm listening to Casey Weigman talk about how "all the good guys from this team are gone" and then mention people like Eric Hicks....

It's nice to hear how we need more character guys like Eric Hicks, bah.

12-31-2007, 04:04 PM
KCJohnny Blind, deceived homer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Maryland, USA Casino cash: $10004900	Kevin Kietzman's Sermon Today on 810 Sports KK was in rare form today excoriating King Carl's failure to deliver on the main SB ingredient: a franchise QB. Among KK's points (and I'm posting them for discussion, not neccessarily aggreeing with them): SB winning teams build around a franchise QB; not a TE (Gonzalez) or OLT Denver built its team around Elway; result: 5 SBs Brady and 4 other Pats are the only constants since 2001; the other 48 players have all been imported to build around Brady The Colts have 7 #1 picks on their squad: QB, RB, TE, WRS and a CB - no OLT, no LBs/DTs, etc... Conventional wisdom: 3 of the top 10 draft prospects are QBs Brodie Croyle is not the QBotF; he is < Jake Plummer Paying LJ $19 mil was a colossal blunder Quality OLmen can be selected in the 3-7th rounds Carl's job might not be as safe as he is telling the media Herm may resign if he can't get sufficient control to turn things around; he will be hired again in the NFL if that happens Clark Hunt will address the media next week A major Chiefs announcement is pending (?) Solari is as good as gone (will not accept demotion to OL coach) Chiefs must draft a QB #1 or forget a SB; they may get another 11-5 early exit, but no SB w/o a franchise QB 15 of the last 19 years the Chiefs have had a SB-caliber OL but not the QB to go with it; 20 NFL teams currently have OLs good enough to win a SB but very few have the QB It was rather disturbing to listen to KK's severe appraisal of young Mr. Croyle. He deplored Croyle's performance in every aspect, and said a strong arm is not enough. 0-6 was plenty of opportunity to see if the potential is there and it clearly is not. He identified Croyle's holding onto the ball, poor reads, missing open receivers, throwing behind the receiver, etc... as performance weaknesses and then he went into the usual riffing about Croyle's durability. It was pretty compelling the way KK presented it. I agree with much but not sure Croyle can't improve. I was deeply disappointed with Brodie's performance yesterday but 2 things jumped out at me: 1. Gonzo and Bowe dropped about 7 passes between them; 2. Until Croyle learns the touch pass, he's never gonna make it in the NFL. Throwing lazer darts from 5 yards away is stupid. Happy New Year, KCJ
Posts: 6,347

12-31-2007, 04:30 PM	#32
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $3294644	Interesting question by KK would the Chiefs win yesterday with Damon Huard? I think yes which says everything I need to know about Croyle
Posts: 66,250

12-31-2007, 04:31 PM	#34
KCJohnny Blind, deceived homer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Maryland, USA Casino cash: $10004900	Another variable no one is talking about is the offensive system next year. KK believes Solari is history. What if the new OC comes in here and wants to run a variation of the Left Coast Offense? Can Croyle run the LCO? That makes acquiring a tested QB like McNabb or Chad all the more attractive to the FO. In my mind, Croyle's greatest weakness is his inability to see the deep receivers. His YPA average is awful - more than a yard less than Huard's whom most people on this forum (ignorantly) castigate as a checkdown QB. Huard is a reasonably complete, mature QB who did just about everything that could be done with this O. If we go to the LCO in '08 then a short-range semi-mobile QB like Croyle may succeed. If we stay with the vertical attack-the-seams Coryell system, I'd rather have a crusty old Huard who can throw the 40 yd attempt a few times than a QB getting about 5.7 yards per attempt. __________________
Posts: 6,347

12-31-2007, 04:39 PM	#45
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2657050	Now I'm listening to Casey Weigman talk about how "all the good guys from this team are gone" and then mention people like Eric Hicks.... It's nice to hear how we need more character guys like Eric Hicks, bah.
Posts: 110,768