Royals 2014 Royals Repository - Page 21

duncan_idaho · 09:30 AM

With my 6,000th post on ChiefsPlanet (it only took me 12 years to get here), I bring you: The 2014 Kansas City Royals Repository.

To be discussed here: All things Royals, as they attempt to post another winning season and make it back to the playoffs for the first time since 1985.

25-man RosterAvailable HERE

AL Central Standings:

Link

Duncan's Top 20 Royals Prospects

Spoiler!

**gblowfish** · 01-09-2014, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

The problem with this line of thinking is that at the time, almost nobody cared or thought it was wrong. Its not like there was this dark taboo that they decided to violate for immoral gain, almost no one cared. Its easy to view the past from today's lens, but public opinion on this did change rather drastically.

If "nobody thought this was wrong," why did these guy all lawyer up and deny deny deny?

**alnorth** · 01-09-2014, 01:44 PM

There's another issue thats not talked about much, but should be a serious concern for Cooperstown if they want to survive in the long-run.

I literally have no reason or desire to ever go to the hall of fame. Why? Because the best players I saw during the time I've been watching baseball are apparently banned right now. If Clemons, Bonds, McGwire, etc aren't in the hall, then I don't care.

All those old farts who are shaking their fists at the PED era have something else to fall back on when they visit, old baseball heroes they watched long ago, but not me. While I may respect the statistical accomplishments of those who were inducted this year, I only saw a few years of their careers, I simply have not been watching baseball long enough to give a tinker's damn about anyone who is in the hall, other than Brett and thats just because he's a Royal, I didn't even see him play.

After the old farts are all invalid or dead, if they were looking to turn Cooperstown into a desolate ghost town that no one visits, then they are on their way.

WhawhaWhat · 01-09-2014, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

It's also a slap in the face to players of that same era who were great WITHOUT cheating by using PEDs.

Nobody knows who did and did not use PEDs, besides maybe the media and owners, but they never said anything about at the time either. It was a part of the game when they played and they should not be punished for it.

**alnorth** · 01-09-2014, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

If "nobody thought this was wrong," why did these guy all lawyer up and deny deny deny?

The time when they were using was a VASTLY different time than when they "lawyered up" and "denied".

Its really not deniable, maybe you don't remember, but roids was a running joke that people weren't offended by, but rather just joked and laughed at during the time that McGwire/Sosa chased the HR record.

**Dartgod** · 01-09-2014, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

There's another issue thats not talked about much, but should be a serious concern for Cooperstown if they want to survive in the long-run.

I literally have no reason or desire to ever go to the hall of fame. Why? Because the best players I saw during the time I've been watching baseball are apparently banned right now. If Clemons, Bonds, McGwire, etc aren't in the hall, then I don't care.

All those old farts who are shaking their fists at the PED era have something else to fall back on when they visit, old baseball heroes they watched long ago, but not me. While I may respect the statistical accomplishments of those who were inducted this year, I only saw a few years of their careers, I simply have not been watching baseball long enough to give a damn about anyone who is in the hall, other than Brett and thats just because he's a Royal, I didn't even see him play.

After the old farts are all invalid or dead, if they were looking to turn Cooperstown into a desolate ghost that no one visits, then they are on their way.

How old are you? I always assumed that you were an old fart.

WhawhaWhat · 01-09-2014, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

If "nobody thought this was wrong," why did these guy all lawyer up and deny deny deny?

Congress got involved which could mean jail time for lying. They needed professional liars at that point. See: Clemens, Roger.

**alnorth** · 01-09-2014, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dartgod

How old are you? I always assumed that you were an old fart.

I'm 35, I still have a good generation or two to go of watching the Royals lose 100 games. Losing is all I've ever known, I was not a baseball fan until the late 90's, and didn't watch a lot of baseball until about 10 years ago.

**gblowfish** · 01-09-2014, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

There's another issue thats not talked about much, but should be a serious concern for Cooperstown if they want to survive in the long-run.

I literally have no reason or desire to ever go to the hall of fame. Why? Because the best players I saw during the time I've been watching baseball are apparently banned right now. If Clemons, Bonds, McGwire, etc aren't in the hall, then I don't care.

All those old farts who are shaking their fists at the PED era have something else to fall back on when they visit, old baseball heroes they watched long ago, but not me. While I may respect the statistical accomplishments of those who were inducted this year, I only saw a few years of their careers, I simply have not been watching baseball long enough to give a tinker's damn about anyone who is in the hall, other than Brett and thats just because he's a Royal, I didn't even see him play.

After the old farts are all invalid or dead, if they were looking to turn Cooperstown into a desolate ghost town that no one visits, then they are on their way.

If you don't have a love for the history of the game, then I can't help you. The history of the game is one of the fundamental pillars that makes baseball great.

**gblowfish** · 01-09-2014, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

The time when they were using was a VASTLY different time than when they "lawyered up" and "denied".

Its really not deniable, maybe you don't remember, but roids was a running joke that people weren't offended by, but rather just joked and laughed at during the time that McGwire/Sosa chased the HR record.

This is revisionist history.

There were plenty of players that were NOT juicing that detested the drugs becoming a part of the game. Players who were dirty were making dirty money, at the expense of the honesty and integrity of the players who stayed clean.

There's plenty of players from that era who put up HOF numbers without having to cheat to get there.

**alnorth** · 01-09-2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

If you don't have a love for the history of the game, then I can't help you. The history of the game is one of the fundamental pillars that makes baseball great.

Most people go to the hall of fame to view the exhibits, plaques, and tributes to baseball players they cheered for. This facade of going because of "history" is a bunch of hogwash for almost all of them.

**alnorth** · 01-09-2014, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

This is revisionist history.

There were plenty of players that were NOT juicing that detested the drugs becoming a part of the game. Players who were dirty were making dirty money, at the expense of the honesty and integrity of the players who stayed clean.

There's plenty of players from that era who put up HOF numbers without having to cheat to get there.

I don't give a damn.

I do care about players who break the rules today because they are clearly illegal and tested for, but it was not even discouraged back then, and the excluded players were the greatest players of their era. A hall of fame without Bonds, McGwire, and Clemens, is a pathetic institution unworthy of being called a "hall of fame".

It is also clear that most fans want them inducted. The hall of fame is supposed to belong to them, not to a few hundred sportswriters.

**gblowfish** · 01-09-2014, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Most people go to the hall of fame to view the exhibits, plaques, and tributes to baseball players they cheered for. This facade of going because of "history" is a bunch of hogwash for almost all of them.

Have you ever been there?

I've been there three times, including to see Brett's induction.

I think if you'd ever taken a trip to Cooperstown, it would change your mind. If you have been there, then again, I can't help you if this is your viewpoint.

**gblowfish** · 01-09-2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

I don't give a damn.

It is also clear that most fans want them inducted. The hall of fame is supposed to belong to them, not to a few hundred sportswriters.

Evidence on this?

BlackHelicopters · 01-09-2014, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

I don't give a damn.

It is also clear that most fans want them inducted. The hall of fame is supposed to belong to them, not to a few hundred sportswriters.

I wonder if most fans want them included.

**gblowfish** · 01-09-2014, 02:56 PM

Alnorth: if it's any consolation, Rany agrees with your viewpoint.

http://www.baseballnation.com/2012/1...-fame-steroids

The difference I see here is, these modern players didn't use PEDs to overcome injury during the season. They paid chemists and boutique drug specialist to craft PEDs that would help them bulk up in the off season, and be UNDETECTABLE by the testing methods at the time. In other words, it was all done to help their agents demand more money for each roided up player, based on their drug-inflated statistics.

Look at Barry Bonds Rookie Card. Doing push ups didn't make his hat size grow from a 6 to a 7 and 3/4.

The other thing that is not spoken of is, these players didn't roid up to help their teams. They roided up to help their marketability first and foremost. It was about grabbing as much money as possible, and cheating the system to do it. Guys like ARoid did nothing but chase money their entire career, and in the case of ARoid, it didn't help the teams he played for win squat.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. And I'll have to see some quantitative proof that "fans want these guys in the hall."

I'll bet it's 50-50 tops.

12-19-2013, 12:45 PM
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1840308	2014 Royals Repository With my 6,000th post on ChiefsPlanet (it only took me 12 years to get here), I bring you: The 2014 Kansas City Royals Repository. To be discussed here: All things Royals, as they attempt to post another winning season and make it back to the playoffs for the first time since 1985. 25-man RosterAvailable HERE AL Central Standings: Link Duncan's Top 20 Royals Prospects Spoiler! 1) 3B Hunter Dozier ETA: 2015 Dozier started slowly at A+ Wilmington but caught fire in May and June, earning a mid-season promotion to AA Northwest Arkansas. Big, strong kid with good plate discipline skills and solid power who projects to be an above-average glove at 3B with solid power. 2) SS Raul (Adalberto) Mondesi ETA: 2017 Mondesis is the opposite of Dozier…. Started red-hot at Wilmington before back spasms derailed him for a few weeks and hasn’t gotten it going since coming back. Scouting reports have been great – defense and speed both improved over the offseason. Still a chance to be an elite SS, with 40 SB speed, plus glove, .300 average and some pop. 3) LHP Sean Manaea \| ETA: 2015 Scouting reports outperform the stat line so far. Missing a ton of bats at A+ but not preventing runs like you’d expect to see. Needs to work deeper into games (gradually working about an inning deeper/month so far this year) and improve control. Walks are biggest concern right now, but could be elevated due to work on extra off-speed offerings. Still has No. 2 starter potential, could be higher if the great control he exhibited before his hip surgery eventually comes back. 4) RHP Kyle Zimmer\| ETA: 2015 Should be NO. 1 on the list and is probably the Royals most VALUABLE current prospect, but he hasn’t thrown a ball in 4-5 weeks and had only been throwing for 2-3 weeks when he was shut down then. 5) LHP Brandon Finnegan\| ETA: 2015 Top 2014 draft choice is an undersized lefty who will start at A+ Wilmington after anchoring CWS run for TCU. Good fastball, better slider, change that needs work to stick as a starter, but if he sticks, No. 2/No. 3 starter upside. Likely a top 10 or even top 5 pick if he doesn’t miss 1 start in the middle of the college season as a precautionary move. 6) RHP Miguel Almonte\| ETA: 2016 Have heard some say Almonte is more advanced as a pitcher at A+ than Yordano Ventura was (comparison because both were cheap signs out of Latin America). Really advanced changeup and a curve that is working out well (where the ‘more advanced’ comment comes from). Fastball velo is good but not great – 92-94. Like Manaea, working on his second-best offspeed pitch and leaning less on his bread-and butter (changeup), which has hurt his numbers a bit. 7) RHP Christian Binford 2017 Reverse case of “don’t just scout stat lines.” Based on his stats at A+, you’d think he was an elite prospect, but there are questions about Binford’s stuff playing up at higher levels. Tall righty with great command of fastball, slider and a good and still developing changeup. None of those pitches profiles as better than average, though, limiting his likely upside to back-end rotation guy. 8) SS Orlando Calixte\| ETA: 2016 I still like him more than many. Good combination of SS/MI skills and power. Started hot at NWA but in a slump at moment. 9)LHP Foster Griffin \| ETA: 2019 Tall, projectable lefty taken in 2014 draft. Viewed as a great value in the sandwich round and probably would have been KC’s pick at No. 17 if Finnegan hadn’t fallen. High school arm who is going to take a while to develop. 10) RF Jorge Bonifacio\| ETA: 2016 Hasn’t hit as well as expected in his second go-round at AA NWA. Power still sapped, and average skills have dipped. Once looked like he might be an option in RF at some point in 2015, now looks like 2016 is optimistic. Still young for his level. 11) 3B/2B Cheslor Cuthbert\| ETA: 2016 Cuthbert has had better luck at NWA than Boni and is also extremely young for level. HE’s been moved to 2B since Dozier was promoted, which could put a new spin on Cuthbert’s prospects. If he sticks at 2B, bat plays up much better. Good OBP/plate discipline and solid power, but needs to continue improving contact skills 12) C Chase Vallot\| ETA: 2020 Young (just 17) C with tremendous power. One of the top prep bats and a great value for KC where it got him. If he sticks at C, expect him to move slowly, but the bat may force the issue (or force him to another position). 13) C Zane Evans\| ETA: 2017 GA Tech product has handled Wilmington better than most RH bats and probably is in line for a promotion to NWA sometime soon. Decent pop, decent skills behind the plate. Could be a nice reserve catcher. 14) RHP Scott Blewett\| ETA: 2020 Tall, projectable righty with a fresh arm but some injury concerns on his shoulder that slipped him out of Round 1 of MLB draft. Big time potential. 15) CF Bubba Starling \| ETA: Bubba Starling has great tools. Bubba Starling (still) can’t hit. That’s all I have to say about that. 16) 1B Samir Duenez\| ETA: I still like him, even though the attempt to run him through full season ball at 17 did not go well. 17)LF/RF Elier Hernandez\| ETA: Hernandez still pops up in scouting reports but still is very raw and toolsy. 18) RHP Pedro Fernandez\| ETA: Pop-up player on the same track as Ventura and Almonte. Similar signing, similar profile. One to watch over next few years. 19) SS Marten Gasparini\| ETA: Royals’ most expensive international signing likely moves to CF eventually, but his speed and athleticism are intriguing abilities. Early reports from complex ball are very positive on him. 20) RHP Niklas Stephenson\| ETA: Interesting pop-up candidate who found 10 more MPH on his fastball by using a weighted ball during workouts over the winter. Now sits mid-90s with fastball and is dominating at rookie ball (after having an ERA over 8 there a year ago). Likely promoted to a higher challenge soon. Last edited by duncan_idaho; 07-01-2014 at 09:30 AM..
Posts: 21,052

01-09-2014, 01:44 PM	#302
alnorth . Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $57176239	There's another issue thats not talked about much, but should be a serious concern for Cooperstown if they want to survive in the long-run. I literally have no reason or desire to ever go to the hall of fame. Why? Because the best players I saw during the time I've been watching baseball are apparently banned right now. If Clemons, Bonds, McGwire, etc aren't in the hall, then I don't care. All those old farts who are shaking their fists at the PED era have something else to fall back on when they visit, old baseball heroes they watched long ago, but not me. While I may respect the statistical accomplishments of those who were inducted this year, I only saw a few years of their careers, I simply have not been watching baseball long enough to give a tinker's damn about anyone who is in the hall, other than Brett and thats just because he's a Royal, I didn't even see him play. After the old farts are all invalid or dead, if they were looking to turn Cooperstown into a desolate ghost town that no one visits, then they are on their way. __________________ how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb? HOW MANY?! none they just sit in the dark and cry
Posts: 36,130

01-09-2014, 02:56 PM	#315
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $17686178 VARSITY	Alnorth: if it's any consolation, Rany agrees with your viewpoint. http://www.baseballnation.com/2012/1...-fame-steroids The difference I see here is, these modern players didn't use PEDs to overcome injury during the season. They paid chemists and boutique drug specialist to craft PEDs that would help them bulk up in the off season, and be UNDETECTABLE by the testing methods at the time. In other words, it was all done to help their agents demand more money for each roided up player, based on their drug-inflated statistics. Look at Barry Bonds Rookie Card. Doing push ups didn't make his hat size grow from a 6 to a 7 and 3/4. The other thing that is not spoken of is, these players didn't roid up to help their teams. They roided up to help their marketability first and foremost. It was about grabbing as much money as possible, and cheating the system to do it. Guys like ARoid did nothing but chase money their entire career, and in the case of ARoid, it didn't help the teams he played for win squat. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. And I'll have to see some quantitative proof that "fans want these guys in the hall." I'll bet it's 50-50 tops.
Posts: 40,830