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Old 05-19-2018, 08:36 AM  
NJChiefsFan27 NJChiefsFan27 is offline
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More people have died in schools than military service members in 2018: report

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A new analysis by The Washington Post found that more people have been killed at schools so far in 2018 than have been killed while serving in the U.S. military, based on data from Defense Department news releases.

After the shooting deaths of 10 people at a Texas high school on Friday, the newspaper’s database has recorded 29 deaths in 16 different incidents in the U.S. as of Friday.

Since the publication of the Post’s article, the death toll has risen to 10 people.

During the same time period, according to Defense Department data, only 13 service member fatalities were recorded in seven incidents.
Seven of those fatalities occurred during a helicopter crash in Iraq this March. Three military casualties were not related to combat.

The Post, however, does not suggest that schools are more dangerous than combat zones. According to more recent data compiled from each of the military branches' websites, there have been more people killed while serving than in school shootings.

Still, last year, the number of fatalities was significantly greater than the number of people killed in school shootings, the paper reported.

This, in part, is because of February's mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., that left 17 people dead.

The Post noted that there are more than 50 million students in public schools but only 1.3 million members of the armed forces. Service members are still about 17 times more likely to be killed than someone in a school shooting.
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/388...in-2018-report
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:58 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
I would be fine with that as I believe that was the framer's intent in the constitution after fighting British tyranny. My broader point was that you continue to focus on laws that would only affect those who obey the laws, and be ignored by those that are hell bent on destruction.
You heard it here folks. Let's just have a free for all of all weapon types and hope for the best because AMERICA!
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:11 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27 View Post
You heard it here folks. Let's just have a free for all of all weapon types and hope for the best because AMERICA!
And you want to take all of our guns away...

It started with the framers intent to ensure freedom and has continued to be slippery slope of restrictive laws... You are now coming after semi-autos and have no clue of the left's true desire of gun confiscation and the calamity it would bring to our nation.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:12 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Yeah it did.
So where was I wrong?
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:21 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by -King- View Post
So where was I wrong?
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I won't speak for pat but I didn't know about the active school shooting that was stopped by an armed school resource officer until I read it here. If the media was really interested in kid's safety they might spend more time on actual common sense solutions than the Hogg kid and his solution that won't actually stop shootings.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:24 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27 View Post

I'm not disputing why the M16 is banned and the AR-15 is not. You are correct in your assessment that the fully automatic firing mode is what makes the M16 unsuitable for civilian use according to federal law. I am just taking issue with the idea that just because the AR-15 isn't fully automatic that it's not a military style rifle. It very much is. Too much of this discussion gets bogged down in semantics though which is why these discussions rarely seem to go anywhere.
So if I replace the adjustable stock with a fixed, remove the flash suppressor, remove the pistol grip. Does the rifle become less deadly? It will still fire the same way.

What you fail to comprehend is all that stuff is basically just cosmetics. I can put racing stripes and numbers on my car but it still isn't a race car.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:25 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by -King- View Post
That's like saying "They're always reporting car accidents!! Why don't they give reports on people who drive and don't get in accidents!"

I don't know what to tell you if you really think 0 deaths is as newsworthy as 10 deaths.
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How does shooting a shooter result in no deaths?

We hear hero stories and marvel at them—but we don't really get many of them when it comes to guns saving lives.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:36 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
I won't speak for pat but I didn't know about the active school shooting that was stopped by an armed school resource officer until I read it here. If the media was really interested in kid's safety they might spend more time on actual common sense solutions than the Hogg kid and his solution that won't actually stop shootings.
It was covered regionally. But once again, death means more coverage and more people talking about it. I don't get how you guys are surprised or somehow don't understand it.

The most ironic thing about it is that if you guys wanted to talk about it or make threads about it, you could have. BEP or Pat could have made a thread about it but didn't. So why come in this thread about people dying from school shootings to talk about it?
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:43 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by -King- View Post
It was covered regionally. But once again, death means more coverage and more people talking about it. I don't get how you guys are surprised or somehow don't understand it.

The most ironic thing about it is that if you guys wanted to talk about it or make threads about it, you could have. BEP or Pat could have made a thread about it but didn't. So why come in this thread about people dying from school shootings to talk about it?
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I'm not arguing that the Texas school shooting wasn't a big, sad, tragic story.

The goal is to try to stop the school shooting behavior right? Maybe discussing things that actually have been proven to work is a place to start.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:59 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
How does shooting a shooter result in no deaths?

We hear hero stories and marvel at them—but we don't really get many of them when it comes to guns saving lives.
WhaWhat proved you wrong a few posts ago. You have any proof of any potential school shootings that were stopped but werent covered in the media?
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:35 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27 View Post
AR-15s can be used to hunt but it's inferior to an actual hunting rifle. It can also be used for self defense, but that is not what it was designed for and there are other firearms better suited for that purpose.



If you told a gun shop owner you were looking for a weapon to hunt with, he would never recommend purchasing an AR-15 over a true hunting rifle.

Either way, you still have to contend with the fact that the AR-15 and M16 are the exact same weapon when semi-auto mode is selected. How can you argue that it's not a military rifle if that's the case?

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, at all.

One of the most popular coyote hunting rifles is an AR. Tons of people use ARs to hunt deer. Tons of people use them for hog hunting, ground hog hunting, elk, antelope. Gun shop owners who know what they are talking about will find what is comfortable for you to shoot and what application you are going to use it for before recommending.

They are also excellent for home defense as well, it doesn’t matter what it was originally designed for because you can customize it to meet any application you want.

You do realize that Glock pistols are used in the military, Remington shotguns, 1911 pistols, Beretta pistols, H&K pistols all used in military. Are they military grade weapons as well? You seem ok with people owning them. Your favorite topic of bolt action hunting rifles are used in the military. I used one a lot when I was a sniper. Are those ok to own? Did you know lever action rifles were military weapons at one point? Those get used for hunting a lot as well. Are they ok?
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:54 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by mac459 View Post
You do realize that Glock pistols are used in the military, Remington shotguns, 1911 pistols, Beretta pistols, H&K pistols all used in military. Are they military grade weapons as well? You seem ok with people owning them. Your favorite topic of bolt action hunting rifles are used in the military. I used one a lot when I was a sniper. Are those ok to own? Did you know lever action rifles were military weapons at one point? Those get used for hunting a lot as well. Are they ok?
The M16 is the only one exclusive to the military which is why that distinction was made.

Personally I have no idea where you draw the line. You could argue that limiting the capacity of these kinds of weapons could be effective in reducing gun deaths. You could also argue that nothing should be banned like another poster did. It's a complicated issue given our cultural tie to firearms and the abundance of these weapons already in circulation. What's clear to me is that the status quo isn't working, and we need to take real steps to address the problem. Why can Republicans pass something like Kate's law which is an outlier to the problem of undocumented immigrants yet they ignore the thousands of people that die to gun violence every year?
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:43 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by mac459 View Post
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, at all.

One of the most popular coyote hunting rifles is an AR. Tons of people use ARs to hunt deer. Tons of people use them for hog hunting, ground hog hunting, elk, antelope. Gun shop owners who know what they are talking about will find what is comfortable for you to shoot and what application you are going to use it for before recommending.

They are also excellent for home defense as well, it doesn’t matter what it was originally designed for because you can customize it to meet any application you want.

You do realize that Glock pistols are used in the military, Remington shotguns, 1911 pistols, Beretta pistols, H&K pistols all used in military. Are they military grade weapons as well? You seem ok with people owning them. Your favorite topic of bolt action hunting rifles are used in the military. I used one a lot when I was a sniper. Are those ok to own? Did you know lever action rifles were military weapons at one point? Those get used for hunting a lot as well. Are they ok?
I was gonna mention that after I finished reading the thread, but it appears you beat me to it

Also, the home defense angle is true as well. I like the semi-auto .22 for home defense in theory. Multiple rounds into the bad guy, minimal drywall damage

But of course that's just theory. Thankfully I have never had to find out.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:26 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27 View Post
Google found the article, it didn't write it.



For starters, the smaller caliber ammunition makes it suitable for hunting vermin, and not for bigger game like deer. It can be done, but it's not optimal. I can't prove that to you, but most hunting enthusiasts would probably agree.
But that doesn’t make it an inferior hunting rifle. It’s a small caliber hunting rifle suitable for certain types of hunting but not others. It doesn’t have the power of a larger caliber hunting rifle, but that doesn’t really help your argument that it should be banned/restricted while the more powerful semi-automatics remain available.

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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27 View Post

I'm not disputing why the M16 is banned and the AR-15 is not. You are correct in your assessment that the fully automatic firing mode is what makes the M16 unsuitable for civilian use according to federal law. I am just taking issue with the idea that just because the AR-15 isn't fully automatic that it's not a military style rifle. It very much is. Too much of this discussion gets bogged down in semantics though which is why these discussions rarely seem to go anywhere.
Ok. Then my point would be that the distinction you want to draw, between “military style” and all else isn’t a good line to try to draw when advocating more restrictive gun control. If there is no functional distinction, there’s no justification for that line in this context.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:35 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by -King- View Post
So where was I wrong?
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I didn’t disagree with you about the relative volume of coverage. I criticized the quality of coverage. Your response went straight back to volume and ignored quality.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:57 AM   #90
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