Life What's fair? (Water Damage Question) - Page 3

**Rain Man** · 07:18 PM

Thank you in advance for your wise counsel (bowing with hands in prayer position).

What's the fair thing in this situation?

We're on the fifth floor of an office building, and have a kitchen in our space. The sink is clogged for some reason, and the maintenance guy pulled the little u-shaped pipe off and put a bucket under the drain. Supposedly they're going to do the anti-clog thing on Monday. I think this happened Thursday morning, but don't recall.

We put a note on the sink not to use it.

Now, the dishwasher is next to the sink, and one of our administrative people started it up. I don't think she knew that the dishwasher drained into into the same drain, so when the dishwasher drained it dumped the water out under the sink, which then ran around on the floor and made its way down to the fourth floor. At that point it set off a fire alarm, so the fire department came out. I don't know the extent of the damage on the fourth floor. I would suspect it's not major considering this is your typical office building with cheapish walls and ceiling tiles, but I don't know if there's also any kind of fire department bill for a false alarm.

The maintenance guy just came up and told me that the landlord is planning to hold us responsible for water damage.

I want to be fair about this, but don't want to pay a bunch of money if it's a landlord deal. What thinks you?

BigRock · 06-25-2011, 02:09 AM

I'd say you shouldn't have to pay anything, but you did hire a dizzy broad who couldn't figure out that the water from a dishwasher would go into the sink with the "DO NOT USE" sign that's right next to it. And you put her in an administrative position!

I'm not up on my labor laws, but that sounds like a fineable offense.

unlurking · 06-25-2011, 05:26 AM

No doubt that's a maintenance issue.

If the landlord is threatening to charge you for the damages, I would contact him immediately and explain the situation. I wouldn't be surprised if the maintenance guy was a bit dishonest with him regarding the situation. As others have stated, the guy acted less than competently, and may have attempted to cover it up with the landlord.

**BigMeatballDave** · 06-25-2011, 05:32 AM

Maintenance issue. They should have warned not to use the dishwasher. IMO, they should have disabled it.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 06-25-2011, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Now that's an excellent point. I hadn't even thought about that.

You hadn't considered he was a moron and it took someone from CP to point it out ?

Hog's Gone Fishin · 06-25-2011, 05:52 AM

Landlords are expected by law to make repairs that are necessary within a [U]reasonable amount of time[U] What that time frame is would have to actually be decided by the judge. I would say 48 to 72 hours on a sink that is necessary for your office. If you end up footing the bill I would immediately start loosening all the doorknobs on a daily basis and reporting them to be fixed

**Dave Lane** · 06-25-2011, 07:12 AM

Good news, bad news. Unless the landlord is in a good mood, you are responsible for the damage. I doubt it's much and their guy may just replace a couple ceiling tiles and not bill you.

**Dave Lane** · 06-25-2011, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer

Landlords are expected by law to make repairs that are necessary within a [U]reasonable amount of time[U] What that time frame is would have to actually be decided by the judge. I would say 48 to 72 hours on a sink that is necessary for your office. If you end up footing the bill I would immediately start loosening all the doorknobs on a daily basis and reporting them to be fixed

You obviously are not familiar with commercial real estate laws. Also they did warn Rainman Inc. not to use the water in the area. 100% Rainman Inc.'s fault. Now they may have mercy and with the economy as bad as it is they may decide it's not worth potentially pissing off a tenant. I would eat the expense but that's me.

Just Passin' By · 06-25-2011, 11:01 AM

Seems like negligence on the part of maintenance.

Fish · 06-25-2011, 11:04 AM

I would burn the building down. Just to be on the safe side.

ClevelandBronco · 06-25-2011, 11:14 AM

I tend to side with Phobia. Maintenance fumbled this one.

If you are thinking of taking full responsibility, however, I would advise you to learn first how much responsibility there is to take. I'd hate to see you take full responsibility then discover that there was a $500,000 piece of equipment directly under the leak.

**Iowanian** · 06-25-2011, 11:47 AM

If the maintenance guy had the drain pulled apart, he should have shut the water off, put a sign to not use it or something.

bRainman, Inc aren't plumbing professionals are they? Did bRainman, Inc leave a clogged drain in your office for a week? Did bRainman, Inc leave an open drain?

If the landlord wants to be jerks about it, I'd think that would be the time you ask them about the quality of maintenance you're paying for with your rent, and if it's acceptable timeframes for a sink to be clogged for an entire week.

**bevischief** · 06-25-2011, 12:13 PM

Shouldn't there have been a water cut off value to the dishwasher? I had to get one installed on mine the last time it was replaced. Why did the maintenance man turn the breaker off for the dishwasher?

**Saul Good** · 06-25-2011, 02:36 PM

The landlord can go **** himself. This accident was not the result of negligence on your ("your" meaning your company) part. It was the result of negligence on the maintenance person's part.

Would a prudent person be expected to know that they can't run the dishwasher because the sink was under repair if no clear warning was given? Probably not.

Would a prudent maintenance person be expected to know better than to leave a sink with an open pipe and the water on without putting up a very visible sign stating not to use the dishwasher nor sink? Absolutely.

Chiefshrink · 06-26-2011, 01:02 PM

Maintenance guy should have known that most DWs are connected to sinks and he should have shut the water off at that point. Landlord hands down!!!!

**Rain Man** · 06-26-2011, 01:08 PM

This is turning out much better than I thought.

My challenge, though, is that I have a really weak negotiating position. We're having to crawl back on our hands and knees to do month to month leases since Keith Neff of Broe Realty screwed us over on our new commercial lease. That's Keith Neff for anyone who missed it. Since we're starting our search over, and since our lease has ended, we're hoping the current landlord will keep us at the same price. So far they have, but if we get into an argument about this stuff it could result in a big short-term rent increase.

Even if it's not our responsibility I may pay it if it's not much money just to keep that good relationship on the rent stuff.

View Poll Results: Who pays for any damage or charges in a fair world?
Rain Man, Inc. pays all damage. Bad dishwasher move.	14	26.92%
Rain Man, Inc. pays most damage. Some shared blame.	8	15.38%
Split it down the middle.	3	5.77%
Landlord pays most damage. Some shared blame.	5	9.62%
Landlord pays all damage. Should've fixed the damn pipe.	17	32.69%
I like running in sprinklers.	5	9.62%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

06-24-2011, 07:09 PM
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3368491 VARSITY	What's fair? (Water Damage Question) Thank you in advance for your wise counsel (bowing with hands in prayer position). What's the fair thing in this situation? We're on the fifth floor of an office building, and have a kitchen in our space. The sink is clogged for some reason, and the maintenance guy pulled the little u-shaped pipe off and put a bucket under the drain. Supposedly they're going to do the anti-clog thing on Monday. I think this happened Thursday morning, but don't recall. We put a note on the sink not to use it. Now, the dishwasher is next to the sink, and one of our administrative people started it up. I don't think she knew that the dishwasher drained into into the same drain, so when the dishwasher drained it dumped the water out under the sink, which then ran around on the floor and made its way down to the fourth floor. At that point it set off a fire alarm, so the fire department came out. I don't know the extent of the damage on the fourth floor. I would suspect it's not major considering this is your typical office building with cheapish walls and ceiling tiles, but I don't know if there's also any kind of fire department bill for a false alarm. The maintenance guy just came up and told me that the landlord is planning to hold us responsible for water damage. I want to be fair about this, but don't want to pay a bunch of money if it's a landlord deal. What thinks you? Last edited by Rain Man; 06-24-2011 at 07:18 PM..
Posts: 141,247

06-25-2011, 02:09 AM	#31
BigRock Pritay Pritay Pritay Good Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The State of Euphoria Casino cash: $3475412	I'd say you shouldn't have to pay anything, but you did hire a dizzy broad who couldn't figure out that the water from a dishwasher would go into the sink with the "DO NOT USE" sign that's right next to it. And you put her in an administrative position! I'm not up on my labor laws, but that sounds like a fineable offense. Last edited by BigRock; 06-25-2011 at 02:14 AM..
Posts: 6,768

06-25-2011, 05:26 AM	#32
unlurking MVP Join Date: Aug 2003 Casino cash: $7737309	No doubt that's a maintenance issue. If the landlord is threatening to charge you for the damages, I would contact him immediately and explain the situation. I wouldn't be surprised if the maintenance guy was a bit dishonest with him regarding the situation. As others have stated, the guy acted less than competently, and may have attempted to cover it up with the landlord. __________________
Posts: 10,620

06-25-2011, 05:32 AM	#33
BigMeatballDave GBM 8-12-15 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dayton, Oh. Casino cash: $10052154	Maintenance issue. They should have warned not to use the dishwasher. IMO, they should have disabled it.
Posts: 59,997

06-25-2011, 05:52 AM	#35
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1750477	Landlords are expected by law to make repairs that are necessary within a [U]reasonable amount of time[U] What that time frame is would have to actually be decided by the judge. I would say 48 to 72 hours on a sink that is necessary for your office. If you end up footing the bill I would immediately start loosening all the doorknobs on a daily basis and reporting them to be fixed
Posts: 40,326

06-25-2011, 07:12 AM	#36
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Good news, bad news. Unless the landlord is in a good mood, you are responsible for the damage. I doubt it's much and their guy may just replace a couple ceiling tiles and not bill you. __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
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06-25-2011, 11:01 AM	#38
Just Passin' By In Search of a Life Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $5460524	Seems like negligence on the part of maintenance.
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06-25-2011, 11:04 AM	#39
Fish Ain't no relax! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2328919	I would burn the building down. Just to be on the safe side. __________________
Posts: 47,462

06-25-2011, 11:14 AM	#40
ClevelandBronco I'm with the banned. Join Date: Sep 2006 Casino cash: $5658955	I tend to side with Phobia. Maintenance fumbled this one. If you are thinking of taking full responsibility, however, I would advise you to learn first how much responsibility there is to take. I'd hate to see you take full responsibility then discover that there was a $500,000 piece of equipment directly under the leak. __________________ "Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth ..." – Pope Saint John Paul II
Posts: 28,113

06-25-2011, 11:47 AM	#41
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $4798454	If the maintenance guy had the drain pulled apart, he should have shut the water off, put a sign to not use it or something. bRainman, Inc aren't plumbing professionals are they? Did bRainman, Inc leave a clogged drain in your office for a week? Did bRainman, Inc leave an open drain? If the landlord wants to be jerks about it, I'd think that would be the time you ask them about the quality of maintenance you're paying for with your rent, and if it's acceptable timeframes for a sink to be clogged for an entire week.
Posts: 61,519

06-25-2011, 12:13 PM	#42
bevischief .... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somewhere Kansas Casino cash: $8659352 VARSITY	Shouldn't there have been a water cut off value to the dishwasher? I had to get one installed on mine the last time it was replaced. Why did the maintenance man turn the breaker off for the dishwasher? Last edited by bevischief; 06-25-2011 at 12:14 PM.. Reason: ...
Posts: 27,731

06-25-2011, 02:36 PM	#43
Saul Good Quit your bullshit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bored of winning Casino cash: $10052799	The landlord can go **** himself. This accident was not the result of negligence on your ("your" meaning your company) part. It was the result of negligence on the maintenance person's part. Would a prudent person be expected to know that they can't run the dishwasher because the sink was under repair if no clear warning was given? Probably not. Would a prudent maintenance person be expected to know better than to leave a sink with an open pipe and the water on without putting up a very visible sign stating not to use the dishwasher nor sink? Absolutely. __________________ Today is not a good day to be a pussy.
Posts: 41,870

06-26-2011, 01:08 PM	#45
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3368491 VARSITY	This is turning out much better than I thought. My challenge, though, is that I have a really weak negotiating position. We're having to crawl back on our hands and knees to do month to month leases since Keith Neff of Broe Realty screwed us over on our new commercial lease. That's Keith Neff for anyone who missed it. Since we're starting our search over, and since our lease has ended, we're hoping the current landlord will keep us at the same price. So far they have, but if we get into an argument about this stuff it could result in a big short-term rent increase. Even if it's not our responsibility I may pay it if it's not much money just to keep that good relationship on the rent stuff. __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit.
Posts: 141,247