A-Rod, HOF or "*"

[GloryDayz]

After seeing that he got his 3000th hit I was dejected. Perhaps that's because I don't like the Yankees, perhaps it's because I don't think any of the hits in his PED years should count (so he's way behind 3000). No matter what, I just think it's a terrible message to send to kids/young players that PEDs will cost you a little something, but when all is said and done the league will act like it never happened.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think the worst part of this is, Bonds arguably would have been in the running for GOAT. ARod wouldn't be that far behind. Even if they didn't touch steroids. Pretty amazing how much they threw away for something they didn't even need.

This is often repeated and completely unsupported. There's no way of knowing what they "didn't need." Yes, those two were great before the use was suspected to start. But Bonds in particular started having some of the greatest seasons of all time at a time when even great players start to go downhill. Did they need it to be considered "great" players with 400-500 HRs? Probably not. To be GOAT-contenders with 700+HRs? Impossible to know.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think people exaggerate the effects of steroids and PEDs. It helped. But there are other reasons for the home run era:
-Juiced ball
-Expansion era pitching
-Reduced strike zone

Steroids improves bat speed by a fraction. But most power comes from your legs and hip rotation, two things that aren't necessarily helped as much by roids. The biggest effect was probably keeping players hitting past their prime.

"Juiced ball"
"A fraction of a second" is huge is baseball, by the way. And you are missing a big impact of steroids and PEDs--helping the body recover from injury and allowing greater, longer, more effective workouts.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

You had guys with the mind and experience of a vet in the body of Greek gods. Mainly oft injured guys on the downside of their careers all "magically" in ridiculous shape and health turning their careers around at the same time.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

"Juiced ball"

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/cha...baseball.shtml

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/cha...baseball.shtml

Good post. Also:
http://deadspin.com/5937432/was-mlbs...uiced-ball-era

Cosmo doesn't seem to realize that there have been multiple unexplained home run and dead ball eras throughout baseball history. Even outside the so-called steroids era. The ball has a big effect.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

"Juiced ball"
"A fraction of a second" is huge is baseball, by the way. And you are missing a big impact of steroids and PEDs--helping the body recover from injury and allowing greater, longer, more effective workouts.

I didn't discount that. I said it allowed players play past their prime.

And again, the greatest gains you're talking about is upper body strength. Good hitting is more about hip rotation and leg muscles. Upper body strength somewhat helps hip rotation by getting the bat around slightly faster. It helped. But a lot of exaggeration around how much it helped. I'd say shitty pitching, juiced ball, hitters friendly parks, and reduced strikes zones had a lot more to do with the home run surge.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

This is often repeated and completely unsupported. There's no way of knowing what they "didn't need." Yes, those two were great before the use was suspected to start. But Bonds in particular started having some of the greatest seasons of all time at a time when even great players start to go downhill. Did they need it to be considered "great" players with 400-500 HRs? Probably not. To be GOAT-contenders with 700+HRs? Impossible to know.

Why do you have to hit 700+ HRs to be considered GOAT? The Babe is widely considered GOAT. Granted, a lot of that was because he was an excellent pitcher too. But he was a solid but unspectacular fielder. Not slow, but not fast either.

Bonds was an elite fielder, base runner, home run hitter, and pure hitter (hits and walks). Think the better question is if Bonds could beat Mays... and yes, I think he could have without the roids.

[Hootie]

I have a really hard time saying a guy who played in 1920 is the greatest ever ... I'd like to see Babe Ruth face off against Wade Davis and see what happens

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I have a really hard time saying a guy who played in 1920 is the greatest ever ... I'd like to see Babe Ruth face off against Wade Davis and see what happens

wow, really dumb

[Hootie]

really?

I'd like to see Bob Cousy play in today's NBA.

I'd like to see what kind of QB Joe Namath is in today's game.

I'm sorry, I have a REALLY tough time saying a guy who played in a league THAT DIDN'T ALLOW BLACKS is the greatest ever.

[Hootie]

The greatest ever, IMO, was Barry Bonds. Dickhead or not.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I have a really hard time saying a guy who played in 1920 is the greatest ever ... I'd like to see Babe Ruth face off against Wade Davis and see what happens

The Babe is often mentioned as GOAT. But it's probably gotta be Mays, if we're taking roids out of the equation. Thing about Babe is he played before integration, so he wasn't playing against all the best athletes.

[Deberg_1990]

Wow, Zack Hample caught A-Rods 300th hit last night. How does this guy know where to be??


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...001101863.html

Here's an interesting twist to Alex Rodriguez's 3,000th hit that no one could have anticipated.

Well, no one aside from the man who actually caught it.

That would be notorious baseball ballhawk Zack Hample, who over the course of his "career" has now snagged over 8,000 baseballs at major league games.

Hample has even written three books about his area of expertise, including one titled "How to Snag Major League Baseballs: More Than 100 Tested Tips That Really Work," which was published back in 1999.

He's been on the receiving end of several notable milestones over the years, including Mike Trout’s first major league home run on July 24, 2011 at Camden Yards. He also caught Barry Bonds' 724th career home run at Petco Park in 2006, and over the years has caught several balls at the Home Run Derby in numerous locations.

Now he adds Alex Rodriguez's 3,000th hit, which should prove to be the most valuable of them all.

Of course, no one knows that better than Hample, and before all's said and done we're guessing A-Rod will wish he'd hit it any place other than directly into Hample's glove.

@Yankeefan98 I'll give him the finger and a dummy ball. That man deserves favors from no one, least of all a fan.
— Zack Hample (@zack_hample) June 19, 2015
A home run to left field or even a broken bat single on the infield would have been preferable to dealing with Hample.

[Hootie]

again ... are we really going to consider Mays the GOAT when he played in an era of inferior players?

And how old are we? You've seen enough Mays to be able to consider him your GOAT?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

wow, really dumb

Well he's right. The level of competition was a flat out joke.