Chiefs Matt Cassell -- My Assessment - Page 6

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 04:15 PM

I've posted at some length about Cassell before in some no doubt long forgotten threads. Given the latest developments, however, I'll try to repeat my thoughts.

I think Matt Cassell has a better than average opportunity to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL. I think, therefore, he represents a much lower risk than nearly any pick that is taken in the draft.

Cassell's season with the Patriots last year showed much about him. It was really a tale of two seasons -- the early part, when he more or less stunk, and the latter part when he came into his own, the coaches and team played to his strengths and stayed away from his weaknesses, and the game clearly slowed down for him and he became more confident and capable in his position and play.

The GOOD:

1. Cassell CLEARLY has all the physical skills. He is big, tall, strong and tough. He takes a wallop and gets right back up. He has the arm strength to throw all the passes -- the deep out or the deep ball. He is reasonably shifty in the pocket (but note pocket presence/timing below) and has good speed in running out of the pocket. There is no physical limitation in his game.

2. Cassell appears to have good leadership skills. Everything I saw/read about Cassell suggests a mature and intelligent individual to whom the team responded. A veteran team, the Patriots players could have folded their tent on him, but he appeared to get the team to buy into him -- both coaches and other players.

3. He isn't a rookie. You may not appreciate this much, but rookies, whether QBs or any other NFL position players, take a hell of a lot of time to understand what the NFL is all about. It's relatively rare for players to have tremendous impact in their first years for precisely this reason. He not only isn't a rookie, but he has been well coached and has seen the best in the game conduct his business.

4. Patience/coachability. He clearly is very coachable. His tremendous improvement as 2008 went along is evidence of that, as well as all the statements made by the Patriots coaches and other players. He also took a beating early in the season, which was partly his fault and partly the fault of the OLine, but continued to progress and elevate his game.

The BAD:

1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again.

2. Timing/pocket presence. Although it got better as the year went along, Cassell took far too many sacks, held the ball too long, and didn't seem to have a good feel for the pocket. Note that this DID get better as teh year went along, and my main source of comparison was Tom Brady, who has about the best pocket presence since Dan Marino, so I may be a bit unreasonable here.

3. Needs the shotgun. As a result of item 2, above, the Patriots starting putting Cassell into the shotgun. ALOT. A whole lot. That definitely helped him quite a bit in terms of seeing/processing the field of play, making quicker decisions, avoiding sacks, etc., but the shotgun also limits the offensive playcalling a fair bit.

In summary, I think he has a better than average chance to be a high quality NFL starting QB. His ceiling is not yet determined, but I think it is quite high.

JuicesFlowing · 02-28-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

Just watch Cassel's highlight reel. You'll see how much more accurate he is. He's a major upgrade over Thigpen. Tyler was ****ing terrible.

The thing about highlight reels is they never look bad, because they are all HIGHLIGHTS. However; Thigpens Badlight reel looks much worse than Cassel's.

BradyFTW! · 02-28-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Agree to disagree. I don't know how many passes he had that were 30+ yards in the air, but it didn't seem to be that many. And it often wasn't for lack of opportunity.

I'll agree with Amnorix on this one: Cassel's deep ball was BAD. So was Brady's when he first started, though. Cassel doesn't lack the arm strength- he just needs time to develop touch and chemistry with his WRs, both of which can be learned.

BigChiefFan · 02-28-2009, 05:43 PM

Good post, Amnorix.

melbar · 02-28-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

He better peform like the guy who wore #16 here instead of the one who wore #10.

#10 was a better passer. #16 was a good game manager on a much better team.

tomahawk kid · 02-28-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melbar

#10 was a better passer. #16 was a good game manager on a much better team.

#16 was clutch (from what I understand from my father and NFL Films).

Dad's take was "Lenny had a "D", but whenever you needed that 3rd down conversion or that TD pass to go ahead, he'd make it happen."

That's good enough for me....

milkman · 02-28-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomahawk kid

#16 was clutch (from what I understand from my father and NFL Films).

Dad's take was "Lenny had a "D", but whenever you needed that 3rd down conversion or that TD pass to go ahead, he'd make it happen."

That's good enough for me....

Exactly, that's why they called him "Lenny the Cool".

Sweet Daddy Hate · 02-28-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTG#10

So basically he is Tyler Thigpen.

Funny you should mention that; their passer ratings for 2008 are damned-near identical!

Uh-oh; Cassel even played more games than Thigpen...DOHT!

Just Passin' By · 02-28-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

Funny you should mention that; their passer ratings for 2008 are damned-near identical!

Uh-oh; Cassel even played more games than Thigpen...DOHT!

89.4 is damned-near identical to 76.0? Cassel was 10th in the NFL. Thigpen was 27th.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...true&Submit=Go

MTG#10 · 02-28-2009, 06:18 PM

I was just ****ing around btw, I would rather have Cassell than Thigpen.

BradyFTW! · 02-28-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

Funny you should mention that; their passer ratings for 2008 are damned-near identical!

Uh-oh; Cassel even played more games than Thigpen...DOHT!

Epic fail (you are very, very wrong).

Sweet Daddy Hate · 02-28-2009, 06:27 PM

Matt Cassel

#16 QB
New England Patriots

2008 STATS

Att516
Comp327
Yds3474
TD21
Int11
Rat89.4

Thig-Butt:

Att * 420
Comp* 230
Yards *2608
TD * 18
INT * 12
Rat * 76.0

Quite the wide margin on those TD's and Int's yes?

EPIC UPGRADE!

unlurking · 02-28-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

89.4 is damned-near identical to 76.0? Cassel was 10th in the NFL. Thigpen was 27th.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...true&Submit=Go

ownage

unlurking · 02-28-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

Matt Cassel

#16 QB
New England Patriots

2008 STATS

Att516
Comp327
Yds3474
TD21
Int11
Rat89.4

Thig-Butt:

Att * 420
Comp* 230
Yards *2608
TD * 18
INT * 12
Rat * 76.0

Quite the wide margin on those TD's and Int's yes?

EPIC UPGRADE!

Almost a 10% increase in completion percentage?!?!
63.3 (MC) vs 54.7 (TT)

Are you THAT reeruned you don't understand the importance of that stat?

Sweet Daddy Hate · 02-28-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlurking

Almost a 10% increase in completion percentage?!?!

Are you THAT reeruned you don't understand the importance of that stat?

How many GAMES did Thigpen start in 2008 again? He basically played half a season, you say?

EPIC, I TELL YOU!

How did we EVER get along in this world without Matt Cassel?!

Just Passin' By · 02-28-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

How many GAMES did Thigpen start in 2008 again? He basically played half a season, you say?

EPIC, I TELL YOU!

How did we EVER get along in this world without Matt Cassel?!

You started by pointing to passer rating, and completely screwed the pooch on that one, so you moved the goalposts and switched your argument.

You truly are an idiot.

02-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Matt Cassell -- My Assessment I've posted at some length about Cassell before in some no doubt long forgotten threads. Given the latest developments, however, I'll try to repeat my thoughts. I think Matt Cassell has a better than average opportunity to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL. I think, therefore, he represents a much lower risk than nearly any pick that is taken in the draft. Cassell's season with the Patriots last year showed much about him. It was really a tale of two seasons -- the early part, when he more or less stunk, and the latter part when he came into his own, the coaches and team played to his strengths and stayed away from his weaknesses, and the game clearly slowed down for him and he became more confident and capable in his position and play. The GOOD: 1. Cassell CLEARLY has all the physical skills. He is big, tall, strong and tough. He takes a wallop and gets right back up. He has the arm strength to throw all the passes -- the deep out or the deep ball. He is reasonably shifty in the pocket (but note pocket presence/timing below) and has good speed in running out of the pocket. There is no physical limitation in his game. 2. Cassell appears to have good leadership skills. Everything I saw/read about Cassell suggests a mature and intelligent individual to whom the team responded. A veteran team, the Patriots players could have folded their tent on him, but he appeared to get the team to buy into him -- both coaches and other players. 3. He isn't a rookie. You may not appreciate this much, but rookies, whether QBs or any other NFL position players, take a hell of a lot of time to understand what the NFL is all about. It's relatively rare for players to have tremendous impact in their first years for precisely this reason. He not only isn't a rookie, but he has been well coached and has seen the best in the game conduct his business. 4. Patience/coachability. He clearly is very coachable. His tremendous improvement as 2008 went along is evidence of that, as well as all the statements made by the Patriots coaches and other players. He also took a beating early in the season, which was partly his fault and partly the fault of the OLine, but continued to progress and elevate his game. The BAD: 1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again. 2. Timing/pocket presence. Although it got better as the year went along, Cassell took far too many sacks, held the ball too long, and didn't seem to have a good feel for the pocket. Note that this DID get better as teh year went along, and my main source of comparison was Tom Brady, who has about the best pocket presence since Dan Marino, so I may be a bit unreasonable here. 3. Needs the shotgun. As a result of item 2, above, the Patriots starting putting Cassell into the shotgun. ALOT. A whole lot. That definitely helped him quite a bit in terms of seeing/processing the field of play, making quicker decisions, avoiding sacks, etc., but the shotgun also limits the offensive playcalling a fair bit. In summary, I think he has a better than average chance to be a high quality NFL starting QB. His ceiling is not yet determined, but I think it is quite high.
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02-28-2009, 05:43 PM	#78
BigChiefFan MVP Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: In the Top 10 Casino cash: $9924205	Good post, Amnorix. __________________ A 35 year drought can make you thirsty.
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02-28-2009, 06:18 PM	#84
MTG#10 Mammoth penis Join Date: May 2006 Location: Springfield Casino cash: $7534386	I was just ****ing around btw, I would rather have Cassell than Thigpen.
Posts: 11,429

02-28-2009, 06:27 PM	#86
Sweet Daddy Hate Unsparing Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	Matt Cassel #16 QB New England Patriots 2008 STATS Att516 Comp327 Yds3474 TD21 Int11 Rat89.4 Thig-Butt: Att * 420 Comp* 230 Yards 2608 TD 18 INT * 12 Rat * 76.0 Quite the wide margin on those TD's and Int's yes? EPIC UPGRADE! __________________ 1. Merciless, severe. 2. Given freely and generously. 100% refusal to overrate 20 year Head Coaches with ZERO **ing rings as a Head Coach. CP's Official Professor of 'Dem Blues for 2019/2020!**
Posts: 77,135