Football Should penalties be able to be challenged in the NFL? - Page 2

Fumblerooski · 10-21-2010, 11:21 PM

I've been going over last weeks game in my head this evening, and just had an off-hand thought about how that PI call would have turned out had Haley been able to challenge the penalty call. And tried to put myself on both sides of the argument for and against it. As well as just realizing the NFL would never just expose the referee's to such questioning.

When thinking it would be a good idea, I was going over how many league letters must go out weekly and how it would ultimately ensure the calls are correct on the field. The coaches are already able to kind of challenge a referee's decision by challenging ball spots and so forth. Getting everything right would be the pro's in this scenario, while a potentially longer game and bitter zebra's the con's...

When thinking against it, I came up with the argument that it wouldn't really change much anyway. While there are horribly blown calls week in and week out, generally they do not effect the outcome of a game anyway. The winners still find ways to overcome and win, and the losers do not. Most flags are judgment calls anyway, and the referee would tend to follow the judgment of his co-workers and not overturn many unless it was completely, 100%, entirely, extra-ordinarily terrible.

I dunno... I just know the NFL are prickly bitches when it comes to players and coaches criticizing their officials, yet there seems to be no real penalty for bad officiating except their score may go down, and they don't "make the playoffs"... I find that to be a little too lenient.

What say you planet? Good Idea? Bad Idea? Good Idea that will never happen anyway so why even discuss it?

I'm going to try to make a poll, but if it never comes...

That's because i'm too stupid to figure it out.

JD10367 · 10-22-2010, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefNHouston

It is dumb ****

Your daddy should've pulled out.

yhf · 10-22-2010, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

OH BUT HUMAN ERROR IS PART OF THE GAME!!!

Well yeah it is.

Long ago, people much smarter than you or I determined that discord and dissent generated a stronger and more passionate following.

Today's professional sports leagues are left with the difficult task of balancing modern technology (that could easily supplant the human element) versus the human element (that clearly generates attention/passion).

ChiefNHouston · 10-22-2010, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yhf

Well yeah it is.

Long ago, people much smarter than you or I determined that discord and dissent generated a stronger and more passionate following.

Today's professional sports leagues are left with the difficult task of balancing modern technology (that could easily supplant the human element) versus the human element (that clearly generates attention/passion).

common sense on the planet

Psyko Tek · 10-22-2010, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefNHouston

Penalties are whats part of the game. Thats what makes it interesting. This would be the same thing as taking an umpire from behind the plate and just just having a computer make all the strikes and balls calls. A little error from the umps/refs is part of the game. Like in baseball you have to make adjustments to the strike zone. In football if they aren't calling holding on tamba hali hell just keep holding him. Making adjustments to the games is the difference between wins and loses. good teams and bad teams.

**** baseball

Mojo Jojo · 10-22-2010, 01:10 AM

Let's play this out....
A hold is challenged...the replay official says there is no hold; however while watching the replay he see's a leg whip that wasn't called. Is the offense now penalized 15-yards for winning a 10-yard challenge?
Where would it end?

yhf · 10-22-2010, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo

Let's play this out....
A hold is challenged...the replay official says there is no hold; however while watching the replay he see's a leg whip that wasn't called. Is the offense now penalized 15-yards for winning a 10-yard challenge?
Where would it end?

I think you just found the can o' worms at the bottom of the rabbit hole. Did you meet that Pandora bitch while you were down there?

Fumblerooski · 10-22-2010, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo

Let's play this out....
A hold is challenged...the replay official says there is no hold; however while watching the replay he see's a leg whip that wasn't called. Is the offense now penalized 15-yards for winning a 10-yard challenge?
Where would it end?

I would say yes, the 15 yard penalty would be called... But likely the same coach in the booth that tells the head coach "Throw the Flag, Throw the Flag!" would notice that and tell coach not to throw the flag as they do in the instance a team is screwed on a spot, yet the coach up top realized the receiver stepped out of bounds at the beginning of his route before catching the ball and it went unnoticed. So instead of yelling for the spot replay flag, that coach tells the head coach to go into hurry-up to prevent an incompletion call...

Of course, under 2 mins in the half.... it could get ugly...

JD10367 · 10-22-2010, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yhf

Long ago, people much smarter than you or I determined that discord and dissent generated a stronger and more passionate following.

So let me get this straight: your premise is that sports owners and league officials decided that getting calls wrong would actually be good because it would band fans together?

That's probably one of the stupider things I've read on the Internet. Which is no small feat.

Mojo Jojo · 10-22-2010, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fumblerooskie

I would say yes, the 15 yard penalty would be called... But likely the same coach in the booth that tells the head coach "Throw the Flag, Throw the Flag!" would notice that and tell coach not to throw the flag as they do in the instance a team is screwed on a spot, yet the coach up top realized the receiver stepped out of bounds at the beginning of his route before catching the ball and it went unnoticed. So instead of yelling for the spot replay flag, that coach tells the head coach to go into hurry-up to prevent an incompletion call...

Of course, under 2 mins in the half.... it could get ugly...

You understand that the coaches in the booth are only allowed to watch the live network feed. So, it is up to the TV truck about what is seen for replays and challenges.

yhf · 10-22-2010, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD10367

So let me get this straight: your premise is that sports owners and league officials decided that getting calls wrong would actually be good because it would band fans together?

That's probably one of the stupider things I've read on the Internet. Which is no small feat.

NO. They didn't decide.

They realized through basic market observation of the consumer base that a certain level of dispute, related to human error, generated a stronger following.

So let me get this straight: you honestly don't believe that a licensing body (the NFL) would allow its clients (the networks) to openly demonstrate the failure of its quality control agents (the officials) if the licensing body didn't KNOW for a fact that human error bullshit (within certain parameters) does in fact increase the overall value of its product.

That would be one of the more stupid things I have read on the net. Which is no mean feat.

BWillie · 10-22-2010, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILikeBigTiddys

Everything should be reviewable.

Next

Only in the last half of the 4th quarter...then I would agree.

**007** · 10-22-2010, 04:09 AM

never happen. The NFL will never let go of their "judgment call" excuse.

Mi_chief_fan · 10-22-2010, 04:58 AM

Rich Eisen asked Rich McKay on NFL Total Access yesterday, citing the BS helmet-to-helmet call against the Jets' Jim Leonard in Denver, a play in which the Jets challenged whether or not the catch was made.

On replay, there clearly was no helmet-to-helmet contact, but McKay's excuse is that it's a slippery slope: don't want to start reviewing judgment calls.

Only reviewable penalty is 12 men on the field.

Sully · 10-22-2010, 05:55 AM

Iirc, during the first instant replay go around, PI was reviewable. But it really is such a judgment call, it was a mess.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 10-22-2010, 06:35 AM

You should be able to challenge obviously bad calls but if you lose the challenge it costs your team 3 points, 10 yards and a kick to the gonads.

View Poll Results: Should coaches have the option to challenge bad calls?
Yes, they should be allowed to challenge bad penality calls.	37	41.57%
No, they shouldn't and you are stupid to ask.	20	22.47%
Yes, they should... But the NFL will never allow them to.	38	42.70%
I have nothing to add.	5	5.62%
Don't know, I haven't watched football since my Gaz-stric bypass surgery.	1	1.12%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

10-21-2010, 11:21 PM
Fumblerooski Bolly 'wood' Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Gardner,KS Casino cash: $10004900	Should penalties be able to be challenged in the NFL? I've been going over last weeks game in my head this evening, and just had an off-hand thought about how that PI call would have turned out had Haley been able to challenge the penalty call. And tried to put myself on both sides of the argument for and against it. As well as just realizing the NFL would never just expose the referee's to such questioning. When thinking it would be a good idea, I was going over how many league letters must go out weekly and how it would ultimately ensure the calls are correct on the field. The coaches are already able to kind of challenge a referee's decision by challenging ball spots and so forth. Getting everything right would be the pro's in this scenario, while a potentially longer game and bitter zebra's the con's... When thinking against it, I came up with the argument that it wouldn't really change much anyway. While there are horribly blown calls week in and week out, generally they do not effect the outcome of a game anyway. The winners still find ways to overcome and win, and the losers do not. Most flags are judgment calls anyway, and the referee would tend to follow the judgment of his co-workers and not overturn many unless it was completely, 100%, entirely, extra-ordinarily terrible. I dunno... I just know the NFL are prickly bitches when it comes to players and coaches criticizing their officials, yet there seems to be no real penalty for bad officiating except their score may go down, and they don't "make the playoffs"... I find that to be a little too lenient. What say you planet? Good Idea? Bad Idea? Good Idea that will never happen anyway so why even discuss it? I'm going to try to make a poll, but if it never comes... That's because i'm too stupid to figure it out.
Posts: 630

10-22-2010, 01:10 AM	#20
Mojo Jojo Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Johnson County Casino cash: $10013802	Let's play this out.... A hold is challenged...the replay official says there is no hold; however while watching the replay he see's a leg whip that wasn't called. Is the offense now penalized 15-yards for winning a 10-yard challenge? Where would it end?
Posts: 3,341

10-22-2010, 04:09 AM	#27
007 Shaken. Not stirred. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Casino cash: $14060126 VARSITY	never happen. The NFL will never let go of their "judgment call" excuse. __________________ My dear girl, there are some things that just aren’t done. Such as, drinking Dom Perignon ’53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s just as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs.
Posts: 65,554

10-22-2010, 04:58 AM	#28
Mi_chief_fan There was an idea..... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Murfreesboro,TN Casino cash: $9942966	Rich Eisen asked Rich McKay on NFL Total Access yesterday, citing the BS helmet-to-helmet call against the Jets' Jim Leonard in Denver, a play in which the Jets challenged whether or not the catch was made. On replay, there clearly was no helmet-to-helmet contact, but McKay's excuse is that it's a slippery slope: don't want to start reviewing judgment calls. Only reviewable penalty is 12 men on the field. __________________ Bandwagon Predators Fan!
Posts: 3,517

10-22-2010, 05:55 AM	#29
Sully It Goes On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lees Summit Casino cash: $10026331	Iirc, during the first instant replay go around, PI was reviewable. But it really is such a judgment call, it was a mess. __________________ "And I don't wish that girl any bad luck," he said, "but I hope she gets hit with a car." - Tommy Lasorda
Posts: 18,295

10-22-2010, 06:35 AM	#30
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1730477	You should be able to challenge obviously bad calls but if you lose the challenge it costs your team 3 points, 10 yards and a kick to the gonads.
Posts: 40,331