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Old 01-10-2018, 12:21 PM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Here's Where Pfizer is going with their $5 billion tax cut

Buying back their stock, enriching stock holders, laying off researchers. Making America Great Again!

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...108-story.html
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:58 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
You are lazy or stupid, possibly both.... I was the youngest brother of 3 in my family. I was the first to go to college and graduate. I have worked very hard and make a very good income. My job requires substantial travel and thank God some talent and knowledge that seems to be easy and enjoyable to me. Thank God not everyone can do it or I wouldn't make very much money.

However, neither of my brother's graduated from high school. However, they were both in the top 5-10%. One brother worked his way up as a master mechanic and fiberglass specialist with no formal training, just hard work. Saved his money and spent wisely then started his own company in his mid-30's. He sold his company after 15 years and semi-retired in Montana with a beautiful ranch and no fiscal worries. He is 55. He is well into the to 10%.

My other brother, unfortunately passed away a few years back at the age of 54 with glioblastoma (McCain cancer). However, he and his wife worked regular 9-5 jobs and saved their money. They decided they wanted more and started a company the cleans new houses for contractors, apartments, and foreclosures. My sister-in-law still runs the business. She has 22 employees and they were successful because builders, property managers and banks could expect them to show up on time and do exactly what they promised. Her net income last year was over $350,000.

So you can continue to call BULLSHIT and be pissed off at everyone else, but that is going to get you or others who think it is just to hard absolutely no where.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

But congrats to your extremely successful family. They are indeed outliers.

Last edited by Jim Hammer; 01-13-2018 at 01:03 PM..
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:19 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
Wealth inequality is not the same as income inequality.
Which is it that bothers you? Which one are you trying to fix through the tax code?

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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
When have tax rates been so high as to drive people out of the country? Wasn't in the 60's or 70's when top tax rate was 70%.

But these tax cuts are going to increase wages, right? So that will help.
It doesn't matter whether it's happened before or not. You can't tax the high income taxpayers enough to reduce income inequality until you drive them out of the tax base (either by discouraging the earning of high incomes or driving them offshore). Have increased taxes on the high income taxpayers over the past 30 years reduced income inequality? Income inequality comes from the opportunity to earn income, not from how high your tax bill is.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:34 PM   #138
IowaHawkeyeChief IowaHawkeyeChief is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

But congrats to your extremely successful family. They are indeed outliers.
Don't call Bullshit on somebody making a post that is more than doable in this country. I also get it, you don't celebrate hard work and success, but attack it as unfair.

I am guessing you are either a gov't worker or part of a union...
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:06 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Which is it that bothers you? Which one are you trying to fix through the tax code?
They both bother me, but I've been talking about wealth inequality the whole time.
Quote:

It doesn't matter whether it's happened before or not. You can't tax the high income taxpayers enough to reduce income inequality until you drive them out of the tax base (either by discouraging the earning of high incomes or driving them offshore). Have increased taxes on the high income taxpayers over the past 30 years reduced income inequality? Income inequality comes from the opportunity to earn income, not from how high your tax bill is.
Wealth inequality has been increasing since the 60's. The issue I have with this tax plan is that it helps the wealthy far more than it benefits everyone else thereby making the gap even wider.

This article explains why this is a bad thing.

Quote:
This kind of extreme inequality is bad for the economy. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which represents a number of the world's richest countries including the United States, estimates that inequality has knocked nearly five percentage points off the economic growth in those countries between 2000 and 2015.

In high-inequality countries, people from poor households typically have less access to quality education. This leads to “large amounts of wasted potential and lower social mobility,” which directly harms economic growth, according to the OECD.

If you were designing a tax plan to reduce the extreme inequality in the United States, you'd probably try to find ways to redistribute some of the wealth from the richest households to the poorest ones. But the Senate GOP tax plan does precisely the opposite of that, according to the CBO: In the short term the richest households get the biggest tax cuts, while longer term the taxes of the poorest households actually increase.

Estate tax? Cut. Income tax rate for millionaires? Cut (at least in the Senate bill). Corporate tax rate? Biggest rate cut ever.

In the long term that probably means more of the pie for the super-rich, and less of it for everyone else.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:21 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
Don't call Bullshit on somebody making a post that is more than doable in this country.
Because no one ever embellishes their accomplishments on the internet.
Quote:
I also get it, you don't celebrate hard work and success, but attack it as unfair.
I have issues with companies who pay employees the least amount possible while raking in record profits and crying "We need tax cuts to be competitive!"
Quote:
I am guessing you are either a gov't worker or part of a union...

via GIPHY



I notice you've quit the debate and instead have moved to attacking me, which you seem to do, a lot.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:10 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
They both bother me, but I've been talking about wealth inequality the whole time.
I think there are more important goals than reducing wealth inequality and apparently so do you. I value a growing economy over a trivial attack on inequality. I guess that's where we have to agree to disagree.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:11 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
Because no one ever embellishes their accomplishments on the internet.I have issues with companies who pay employees the least amount possible while raking in record profits and crying "We need tax cuts to be competitive!"

via GIPHY



I notice you've quit the debate and instead have moved to attacking me, which you seem to do, a lot.

attacking you... I said you must be a gov't worker or a union employee, both of which employees have an incentive to achieve more as everyone is paid equally.

The reason folks like you don't understand success...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excuse
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:15 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
attacking you... I said you must be a gov't worker or a union employee, both of which employees have an incentive to achieve more as everyone is paid equally.

The reason folks like you don't understand success...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excuse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:17 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think there are more important goals than reducing wealth inequality and apparently so do you. I value a growing economy over a trivial attack on inequality. I guess that's where we have to agree to disagree.
Why do I include links if you aren't even going to read them...

Quote:
This kind of extreme inequality is bad for the economy. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which represents a number of the world's richest countries including the United States, estimates that inequality has knocked nearly five percentage points off the economic growth in those countries between 2000 and 2015.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:28 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
Why do I include links if you aren't even going to read them...
Sorry, I'm not a wealth inequality alarmist so I'm not buying it.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:40 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Sorry, I'm not a wealth inequality alarmist so I'm not buying it.
Fair enough.

I'm not buying that these tax cuts will do anything to help the poor and middle classes.

Agree to disagree.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:23 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
Fair enough.

I'm not buying that these tax cuts will do anything to help the poor and middle classes.

Agree to disagree.
What do you think would help the poor and middle class?
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:35 AM   #148
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As a CEO you're responsible to the stakeholders not medical research. They know that they will never get paid for said research anymore so why should invest in it.
Do you even know how pharma works? The entire industry is built around innovation. It's a constant race for new drugs because as soon as new drugs become established, you have a short window before they can be copied by generics. Shareholders only care about short-term returns. The last thing you want to do in pharma is cut off your innovation pipeline for short-term results. We'll see what Pfizer actually does. Maybe they'll plan to still boost R&D. If they don't and their plan is only to pump to investors then this is just a money grab.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:45 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
What do you think would help the poor and middle class?
Better wages.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:46 AM   #150
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Do you even know how pharma works? The entire industry is built around innovation. It's a constant race for new drugs because as soon as new drugs become established, you have a short window before they can be copied by generics. Shareholders only care about short-term returns. The last thing you want to do in pharma is cut off your innovation pipeline for short-term results. We'll see what Pfizer actually does. Maybe they'll plan to still boost R&D. If they don't and their plan is only to pump to investors then this is just a money grab.
The article shows a history of failed Alzheimer trials and they didn't have anything promising in their pipeline for this area of research. It also states they are reallocating these dollars to other potential solutions in R&D.
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