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Old 01-10-2018, 12:21 PM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Here's Where Pfizer is going with their $5 billion tax cut

Buying back their stock, enriching stock holders, laying off researchers. Making America Great Again!

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...108-story.html
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:45 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
Explain the OP? I guess you skipped this part of that post:
If you don't want to (or can't) explain, just say so. Let's not beat around the bush. Your premise makes no sense and you refuse to explain it. That's enough for me.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:53 PM   #62
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If Pfizer lays off instead, then don't give them any research subsidies. Let's face it this is one of the kinds of companies that benefits from govt and enjoys market protections because our healthcare system has monopolies making most people dependent on the Big Pharma approach to care. They even help fund medical schools to ensure the healthcare approaches are dependent on that. Whatta' racket!
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:00 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If you don't want to (or can't) explain, just say so. Let's not beat around the bush. Your premise makes no sense and you refuse to explain it. That's enough for me.
I'll type slowly...

The tax cuts were supposed to enable companies to expand, create more jobs, enable pay raises.

This company, Pfizer, (they make drugs, the good kind, not like meth) is going to take the extra money from the tax breaks and buy back stocks. This is good for ownership and stockholders, more money for them.

And instead of creating jobs, they are firing 300 people.

This doesn't benefit the poor or middle class, only the wealthy.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:09 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
I'll type slowly...

The tax cuts were supposed to enable companies to expand, create more jobs, enable pay raises.

This company, Pfizer, (they make drugs, the good kind, not like meth) is going to take the extra money from the tax breaks and buy back stocks. This is good for ownership and stockholders, more money for them.

And instead of creating jobs, they are firing 300 people.

This doesn't benefit the poor or middle class, only the wealthy.
The firing of 300 people doesn't sound at all connected to the tax reform. Do you have a reason for including it as if it is?

As for the rest, those sound like reasonable uses for the tax savings. I don't understand the concern. If you think someone promised you that every single aspect of the wide-ranging tax reform package was going to directly benefit the poor, you are mistaken. As for whether or not the poor and middle class ultimately benefit from this, the story is yet to be written.

P.S. Type at whatever speed you want. I read at the same pace either way.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:21 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The firing of 300 people doesn't sound at all connected to the tax reform. Do you have a reason for including it as if it is?
It just goes against the reasoning for the increased revenue to go back into the company. Using savings for R&D would be one use for that money.
Quote:
As for the rest, those sound like reasonable uses for the tax savings. I don't understand the concern. If you think someone promised you that every single aspect of the wide-ranging tax reform package was going to directly benefit the poor, you are mistaken.
Tax cuts for business were sold as they would benefit the poor and middle class. Critics said they would be used exactly like this, stock buy-backs which only benefit the wealthy.

Quote:
As for whether or not the poor and middle class ultimately benefit from this, the story is yet to be written.
True.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:38 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
It just goes against the reasoning for the increased revenue to go back into the company. Using savings for R&D would be one use for that money.
It doesn't go against any reasoning. It has nothing to do with the tax reform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
Tax cuts for business were sold as they would benefit the poor and middle class. Critics said they would be used exactly like this, stock buy-backs which only benefit the wealthy.
These tax cuts do benefit the poor and the middle class along with everyone else by creating an improved business climate. Every company will determine for itself how best to use it's tax relief. They won't all make the same choices because they're not all in the same condition. Investing in stock is a legitimate option, whether that be in the form of an equity investment in another company or a repurchase of their own stock.

Even if stock buybacks only benefited the wealthy, the test of the tax reform is how it performs over the entire economy, not just how the relief is used at a few cherry-picked corporations.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:38 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
It just goes against the reasoning for the increased revenue to go back into the company. Using savings for R&D would be one use for that money.
Perhaps they were employees who voted for Hillary. Clearly firing bad employees is a good thing, and voting for Hillary, well, "pink slip"!

On a serious note, you'd have to provide some details on these employees before I'm going to believe a tax cut, or associated with a tax cut, Pfizer is firing employees.

If they're divesting the company of a product line, while that results in letting go of some, or all, of the employees in that product line, it's more because of the divestiture.

As for them increasing the value of their stock, all I can say is, "Yay, yay, woot-woot, YAY!!!" And I'll bet you can guess why! Like a boss!!!
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:16 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
Start with this first. If you still need help, ask again later.

Spoiler!



You didn't read the OP, did you. Cliffs notes:

Pfizer says it's going to pocket tax cuts and lay off employees.

How does this benefit anyone except the rich in his case?
Stock holders benefit. Employees benefit when their employer improves it's position. The community the employer is in benefits from having a stable and strong business resident.

You know this. You also know that a public company owes a duty to their stockholders. Good business involves making cuts where and when needed. A good example of what occurs when necessary cuts aren't made is our current list of federal employees.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:17 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
It just goes against the reasoning for the increased revenue to go back into the company. Using savings for R&D would be one use for that money.

Tax cuts for business were sold as they would benefit the poor and middle class. Critics said they would be used exactly like this, stock buy-backs which only benefit the wealthy.



True.
AGAIN, Let me type slower for you. They are using the repatriated funds for stock buy backs and dividends. If not for the tax plan, this money would have stayed overseas. 8% will go to the treasury and the rest will benefit stockholders of all income levels. This include almost every American that is in a 401k or Pension Plan, as Pfizer is a Fortune 100 company. This money also does not just disappear. When folks take out money, or our distributed dividends, they pay a tax as well and also might spend it. If not, they reinvest it in other companies. It is money that is now circulating in our economy instead of sitting idle overseas. It does not disappear as you would like to think...
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:20 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post

P.S. Type at whatever speed you want. I read at the same pace either way.
That's funny!
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:54 AM   #71
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I'll type slowly...
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:19 PM   #72
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AGAIN, Let me type slower for you. They are using the repatriated funds for stock buy backs and dividends. If not for the tax plan, this money would have stayed overseas. 8% will go to the treasury and the rest will benefit stockholders of all income levels. This include almost every American that is in a 401k or Pension Plan, as Pfizer is a Fortune 100 company. This money also does not just disappear. When folks take out money, or our distributed dividends, they pay a tax as well and also might spend it. If not, they reinvest it in other companies. It is money that is now circulating in our economy instead of sitting idle overseas. It does not disappear as you would like to think...
How many Americans have a 401k? Around 32%. How many own stocks? 43%. Which end of the wealth spectrum do you think those people lie on? There might be some people on the poorer spectrum who own stocks and have 401ks, but the majority are those wealthier individuals. So instead of saying it only benefits the wealthy, I should have said this disproportionately benefits the wealthy.

This tax plan was sold as a middle class tax cut. Stuff like this is exactly what critics of this bill were worried about. There is a finite amount of wealth in this country. When the rich take more and more of it, it leaves less for those at the middle and bottom.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:26 PM   #73
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How many Americans have a 401k? Around 32%. How many own stocks? 43%. Which end of the wealth spectrum do you think those people lie on? There might be some people on the poorer spectrum who own stocks and have 401ks, but the majority are those wealthier individuals. So instead of saying it only benefits the wealthy, I should have said this disproportionately benefits the wealthy.

This tax plan was sold as a middle class tax cut. Stuff like this is exactly what critics of this bill were worried about. There is a finite amount of wealth in this country. When the rich take more and more of it, it leaves less for those at the middle and bottom.
No it doesnt.


If I get a pay raise they don't go kick a poor guy to the street and take my raise from him
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:30 PM   #74
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How many Americans have a 401k? Around 32%. How many own stocks? 43%. Which end of the wealth spectrum do you think those people lie on? There might be some people on the poorer spectrum who own stocks and have 401ks, but the majority are those wealthier individuals. So instead of saying it only benefits the wealthy, I should have said this disproportionately benefits the wealthy.

This tax plan was sold as a middle class tax cut. Stuff like this is exactly what critics of this bill were worried about. There is a finite amount of wealth in this country. When the rich take more and more of it, it leaves less for those at the middle and bottom.
AGAIN, I also state pension plans. Along with 401k plans you can include IRA's and 457 plans. Every public employee and almost every union has a traditional pension plan. These have to be fund with actuarial calculations each year. A large and important part of that calculation is the investment portfolio and they all most likely hold Pfizer. This impacts all employees by requiring a smaller contribution to fund these plans which makes the budget ultimately healthier for benefits and/or salary increases.

Once again you are acting like these dividends and stock price increases disappear. If stock is bought back or dividends are paid this eventually will lead to a capital gain for the individual holder. They pay taxes on these gains. They could then reinvest these dollars into other companies, or they could spend it. IT DOESN't DISAPPEAR from the economy. IT WOULDN'T have ever been brought back to this country if not for the TAX PLAN...
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:57 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
AGAIN, I also state pension plans. Along with 401k plans you can include IRA's and 457 plans. Every public employee and almost every union has a traditional pension plan. These have to be fund with actuarial calculations each year. A large and important part of that calculation is the investment portfolio and they all most likely hold Pfizer. This impacts all employees by requiring a smaller contribution to fund these plans which makes the budget ultimately healthier for benefits and/or salary increases.
Gonna need a cite for the bolded. Although they may be offered plans, only about 1/3 take advantage of such plans.
Quote:
Once again you are acting like these dividends and stock price increases disappear. If stock is bought back or dividends are paid this eventually will lead to a capital gain for the individual holder. They pay taxes on these gains. They could then reinvest these dollars into other companies, or they could spend it. IT DOESN't DISAPPEAR from the economy. IT WOULDN'T have ever been brought back to this country if not for the TAX PLAN...
Where is I say it did?

Why don't you address this?

Quote:
This tax plan was sold as a middle class tax cut. Stuff like this is exactly what critics of this bill were worried about. There is a finite amount of wealth in this country. When the rich take more and more of it, it leaves less for those at the middle and bottom.
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