King Carl's Drafting Success. The Planet Decides. - Page 3

**BigRedChief** · 03-19-2005, 07:18 AM

Stolen from the chiefscoalition site and nychiefsfan.

You don't have to break it down like I did, but I was curious about our overall success, or lack of it, regarding our drafts. Overall, CP did better than what I thought (I thought it'd be a grade of "D"). He didn't do much better, but better...
I assigned a letter grade to each year, then added the letter grade's point value and divided it by 16 (# of years CP's drafted for us). My overall total average for CP was 2.01875, which is a "C". I tried to be as fair as possible.
If anyone gets really bored, use the following GPA scoring system to grade the overall draft:
A = 4.0
A- = 3.7
B+ = 3.3
B = 3.0
B- = 2.7
C+ = 2.3 . . .
C = 2.0
C- = 1.7
D+ = 1.3
D = 1.0
E = 0
King Ego's 1st three rounds selections since he took over:
1989
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 4 Derrick Thomas DE Alabama
2 32 Mike Elkins QB Wake Forest
3 60 Nasrallah Worthen WR North Carolina State
GRADE:A-
If the only person CP drafted in '89 was DT, he would get an A, but he wasted the two following picks on losers. Props to getting DT.
1990
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 13 Percy Snow ILB Michigan State
2 40 Tim Grunhard C Notre Dame
4 96 Fred Jones WR Grambling
GRADE:C- With the 13th overall pick, we get Percy Snow??? :blink: Great move CP :angry: Grunny was a very good selection, so props on getting him.
1991
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 21 Harvey Williams RB Louisiana State
2 50 Joe Valerio G Pennsylvania
3 77 Tim Barnett WR Jackson State
GRADE: D
1992
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 20 Dale Carter CB Tennessee
2 40 Matt Blundin QB Virginia
GRADE: A- Carter was an awesome selection, but then we got Blundin

1993
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
3 74 Will Shields G Nebraska
GRADE: A Shields has been a superstar for us. Props to CP

1994
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 25 Greg Hill RB Texas A&M
2 58 Donnell Bennett FB Miami
3 92 Lake Dawson WR Notre Dame
3 96 Chris Penn WR Tulsa
GRADE: D
1995
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 31 Trezelle Jenkins T Michigan
3 81 Tamarick Vanover WR Florida State
3 97 Troy Dumas LB Nebraska
GRADE D: Vanover was a good KR/PR, that's it.
1996
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 28 Jerome Woods FS Memphis
2 58 Reggie Tongue SS Oregon State
3 68 John Browning NT West Virginia
GRADE B: Woods and Tongue were arguable CP's best 1st 2 picks up to this point.
1997
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 13 Tony Gonzalez TE California
2 47 Kevin Lockett WR Kansas State
GRADE: A- Gonzo was a great selection. Lockett: not-so-great
1998
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 27 Victor Riley T Auburn
3 88 Rashaan Shehee RB Washington
GRADE: D Riley was mediocre, at best. Shehee was a joke.
1999
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 14 John Tait T Brigham Young
2 54 Michael Cloud RB Boston College
3 75 Gary Stills DE West Virginia
GRADE C+: Remember reading about CP swearing at Tait during negotiations...and Tait's a Mormon. Dumbass. Stills is a great ST player.
2000
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 21 Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State
2 54 William Bartee CB Oklahoma
3 85 Greg Wesley SS Arkansas-Pine Bluff
GRADE: D It would have been an F is they didn't draft Wesley, but if you look at what a waste the 1st 2 picks are, it would arguably be an F.
2001
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
3 75 Eric Downing DT Syracuse
3 77 Marvin Minnis WR Florida State
GRADE F Downing is about as worthless as Sims. Minnis??

2002
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 6 Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
2 43 Eddie Freeman DE Ala.-Birmingham
GRADE: F- I wish there was a lower grade than F- :hmmmmmmm:
2003
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State
2 47 Kawika Mitchell MLB South Florida
3 92 Julian Battle CB Tennessee
GRADE B Priest's questionable hip saved CP this year. Mitchell and Battle havent blossomed into the players we hoped.
2004
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
2 36 Junior Siavii NT Oregon
2 61 Kris Wilson TE Pittsburgh
3 93 Keyaron Fox OLB Georgia Tech
GRADE C+: Siavii is still raw. Wilson might be a great player, but we really needed D on this pick. Fox was rarely used outside of ST.

htismaqe · 03-20-2005, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

My god you are an easy grade, No way 2003 can ever be higher than a C given Mitchell and Battle are dismal failures and we desperately needed Defense in the first round and went offense.

Then you give a C+ for what is clearly at best an Incomplete, if you grade on last season only it is a clear F.

Well at least overall you gave them a D

Larry Johsnon alone gets that draft a C.

It was widely publicized that DV wanted Tyler Brayton. Given that, and our track record with other defensive draftees during his tenure, I think we can be thankful that we got a PLAYER, rather than wasting yet another 1st-round draft pcik.

|Zach| · 03-20-2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCWolfman

No one could predict he would get injured in such a freak accident.

The Chiefs Planet Brain Trust can.

**BigRedChief** · 03-20-2005, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

My god you are an easy grade, No way 2003 can ever be higher than a C given Mitchell and Battle are dismal failures and we desperately needed Defense in the first round and went offense.

Then you give a C+ for what is clearly at best an Incomplete, if you grade on last season only it is a clear F.

Well at least overall you gave them a D

Look at the top line of the first post. Theses are not my grades but nychiefsfan's grades. He did all the work I just stole....um I mean borrowed it.

KCWolfman · 03-20-2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

Russ the statistic of 50% of all first rounders being successful starters came from an Analyst on NFL Total Access on the NFL network.

Jim, I don't doubt. But again, what are those statistics for the teams that draft worst than 10th position on a consistent basis?

Indy did great with the draft, but they had a bajillion chances in the 90s as they were rarely less than 8th.

KCWolfman · 03-20-2005, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachKC

The Chiefs Planet Brain Trust can.

Obviously we have learned a lesson.

Messier · 03-20-2005, 09:46 AM

One thing i think is interesting is that people act like Carl is sitting in a draft room alone picking these players. Carl picks strongly on the recammendation of scouts and coaches. Many of the very players that were busts were players the coaches wanted.

milkman · 03-20-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier

One thing i think is interesting is that people act like Carl is sitting in a draft room alone picking these players. Carl picks strongly on the recammendation of scouts and coaches. Many of the very players that were busts were players the coaches wanted.

We know this, but that doesn't excuse him.
He's the incompetent that hired the scouting staff.

whoman69 · 03-20-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

It's difficult to say what grade I would give CP for drafting. I believe that he has been someone who generally lets the coaches pick the players they want.

I believe he has the last say. For example, it's no secret that Johnson was his pick. But that was the exception, not the rule. It was fairly obvious by the way DV recieved the decision.

But of course, if this is a linch mob thread for Peterson, I appologize if I have injected some logic into the debate.

Carry on.

The Larry Johnson deal showed that CP is the final arbiter on whom the Chiefs take in the draft. I would have to state that Carl made the right decision in that case because the situation with Priest was so unsettled. Its turned out that LJ is the best back that CP has ever drafted, not that its a really high standard.
Since CP makes the final decision, granted that he does it with input from his head coach, its in the end his fault for the lack of talent being brought here on draft day. If I were to rate his drafts 1997 and prior, he might get a B. From that point on its F minus and he has a ways to go to make it an F.

CrazyHorse · 03-20-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

The Larry Johnson deal showed that CP is the final arbiter on whom the Chiefs take in the draft. I would have to state that Carl made the right decision in that case because the situation with Priest was so unsettled. Its turned out that LJ is the best back that CP has ever drafted, not that its a really high standard.
Since CP makes the final decision, granted that he does it with input from his head coach, its in the end his fault for the lack of talent being brought here on draft day. If I were to rate his drafts 1997 and prior, he might get a B. From that point on its F minus and he has a ways to go to make it an F.

In other words, nobody else on the staff is held accountable for thier effort, or for the effect it has on the team. It pretty much all goes back to Peterson.

I think the drafts started going downhill about the time we hired that dude from New Orleans for our personnel department. The same guiy that traded away the draft for Ricky Williams if I am correct.

htismaqe · 03-20-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

In other words, nobody else on the staff is held accountable for thier effort, or for the effect it has on the team. It pretty much all goes back to Peterson.

I think the drafts started going downhill about the time we hired that dude from New Orleans for our personnel department. The same guiy that traded away the draft for Ricky Williams if I am correct.

He came with Vermeil. Vermeil's drafts have been horrible.

**BigRedChief** · 03-21-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rufusmaqe

He came with Vermeil. Vermeil's drafts have been horrible.

Yeah I forgot about that. I remember the thread talking about how we "improved" our draft personnel by getting the guy that engineered trading a whole draft for Rickey Williams.

nmt1 · 03-21-2005, 11:57 AM

That's a nice breakdown. I'd be interested to see how other teams have faired.

BigChiefFan · 03-21-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmt1

That's a nice breakdown. I'd be interested to see how other teams have faired.

How many other teams have had a GM for 17 years? 17 years is ample evidence Carl needs to relinquish his GM duties.

Pants · 03-21-2005, 12:17 PM

Not going to read the whole thread. Grade - D+

Trade for Surtain, we won't get ANYTHING better than Surtian in the 2nd. Most likely we'll get another Bartee. I don't see why poeple are reserved about trading our 2nd. Yeah, we COULD POSSIBLY get PS without trading, but if trading makes it a sure deal, then go for it. WTF needs a 2nd round pick with CP as their drafter?

nmt1 · 03-21-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

How many other teams have had a GM for 17 years? 17 years is ample evidence Carl needs to relinquish his GM duties.

I realize that your whole purpose for posting this analysis is to piss and moan about Carl Peterson but I think it would be interesting to have a comparison of all teams regardless of management. I'm not interested in defending or indicting anyone, I'm interested in how much of a crap shoot the draft really is.

View Poll Results: Whats your grade?
A	1	1.28%
B	4	5.13%
C	21	26.92%
D	42	53.85%
F	10	12.82%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

03-19-2005, 07:18 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3169627 VARSITY	King Carl's Drafting Success. The Planet Decides. Stolen from the chiefscoalition site and nychiefsfan. You don't have to break it down like I did, but I was curious about our overall success, or lack of it, regarding our drafts. Overall, CP did better than what I thought (I thought it'd be a grade of "D"). He didn't do much better, but better... I assigned a letter grade to each year, then added the letter grade's point value and divided it by 16 (# of years CP's drafted for us). My overall total average for CP was 2.01875, which is a "C". I tried to be as fair as possible. If anyone gets really bored, use the following GPA scoring system to grade the overall draft: A = 4.0 A- = 3.7 B+ = 3.3 B = 3.0 B- = 2.7 C+ = 2.3 . . . C = 2.0 C- = 1.7 D+ = 1.3 D = 1.0 E = 0 King Ego's 1st three rounds selections since he took over: 1989 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 4 Derrick Thomas DE Alabama 2 32 Mike Elkins QB Wake Forest 3 60 Nasrallah Worthen WR North Carolina State GRADE:A- If the only person CP drafted in '89 was DT, he would get an A, but he wasted the two following picks on losers. Props to getting DT. 1990 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 13 Percy Snow ILB Michigan State 2 40 Tim Grunhard C Notre Dame 4 96 Fred Jones WR Grambling GRADE:C- With the 13th overall pick, we get Percy Snow??? :blink: Great move CP :angry: Grunny was a very good selection, so props on getting him. 1991 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 21 Harvey Williams RB Louisiana State 2 50 Joe Valerio G Pennsylvania 3 77 Tim Barnett WR Jackson State GRADE: D 1992 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 20 Dale Carter CB Tennessee 2 40 Matt Blundin QB Virginia GRADE: A- Carter was an awesome selection, but then we got Blundin 1993 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 3 74 Will Shields G Nebraska GRADE: A Shields has been a superstar for us. Props to CP 1994 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 25 Greg Hill RB Texas A&M 2 58 Donnell Bennett FB Miami 3 92 Lake Dawson WR Notre Dame 3 96 Chris Penn WR Tulsa GRADE: D 1995 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 31 Trezelle Jenkins T Michigan 3 81 Tamarick Vanover WR Florida State 3 97 Troy Dumas LB Nebraska GRADE D: Vanover was a good KR/PR, that's it. 1996 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 28 Jerome Woods FS Memphis 2 58 Reggie Tongue SS Oregon State 3 68 John Browning NT West Virginia GRADE B: Woods and Tongue were arguable CP's best 1st 2 picks up to this point. 1997 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 13 Tony Gonzalez TE California 2 47 Kevin Lockett WR Kansas State GRADE: A- Gonzo was a great selection. Lockett: not-so-great 1998 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 27 Victor Riley T Auburn 3 88 Rashaan Shehee RB Washington GRADE: D Riley was mediocre, at best. Shehee was a joke. 1999 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 14 John Tait T Brigham Young 2 54 Michael Cloud RB Boston College 3 75 Gary Stills DE West Virginia GRADE C+: Remember reading about CP swearing at Tait during negotiations...and Tait's a Mormon. Dumbass. Stills is a great ST player. 2000 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 21 Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State 2 54 William Bartee CB Oklahoma 3 85 Greg Wesley SS Arkansas-Pine Bluff GRADE: D It would have been an F is they didn't draft Wesley, but if you look at what a waste the 1st 2 picks are, it would arguably be an F. 2001 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 3 75 Eric Downing DT Syracuse 3 77 Marvin Minnis WR Florida State GRADE F Downing is about as worthless as Sims. Minnis?? 2002 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 6 Ryan Sims DT North Carolina 2 43 Eddie Freeman DE Ala.-Birmingham GRADE: F- I wish there was a lower grade than F- :hmmmmmmm: 2003 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State 2 47 Kawika Mitchell MLB South Florida 3 92 Julian Battle CB Tennessee GRADE B Priest's questionable hip saved CP this year. Mitchell and Battle havent blossomed into the players we hoped. 2004 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 2 36 Junior Siavii NT Oregon 2 61 Kris Wilson TE Pittsburgh 3 93 Keyaron Fox OLB Georgia Tech GRADE C+: Siavii is still raw. Wilson might be a great player, but we really needed D on this pick. Fox was rarely used outside of ST.
Posts: 78,987

03-20-2005, 09:46 AM	#36
Messier MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Casino cash: $10005050	One thing i think is interesting is that people act like Carl is sitting in a draft room alone picking these players. Carl picks strongly on the recammendation of scouts and coaches. Many of the very players that were busts were players the coaches wanted.
Posts: 7,610

03-21-2005, 11:57 AM	#42
nmt1 Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	That's a nice breakdown. I'd be interested to see how other teams have faired.
Posts: 1,735

03-21-2005, 12:17 PM	#44
Pants Time Keeps On Slipping Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $5719900	Not going to read the whole thread. Grade - D+ Trade for Surtain, we won't get ANYTHING better than Surtian in the 2nd. Most likely we'll get another Bartee. I don't see why poeple are reserved about trading our 2nd. Yeah, we COULD POSSIBLY get PS without trading, but if trading makes it a sure deal, then go for it. WTF needs a 2nd round pick with CP as their drafter? __________________ "Turn the channel to 26!"
Posts: 27,294