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Old 10-06-2004, 04:29 PM  
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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The Official "Lost" the series discussion

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:14 AM   #4816
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In my Friday column, I'll explore those literary references some more, plus tell you what Doc Arzt's has to do with all of them. In the meantime, think about this: In Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle In Time, there's a young boy supernaturally bright and powerful who falls prey to an evil, disembodied mind known as IT. He turns out okay, and lives to save the day in other books. But in a subsequent series of books that take place many years after the events of A Wrinkle In Time and its sequels, we learn that this protagonist has gone mysteriously missing, allegedly on a secret mission. He never again appeared in L'Engle's books. This young man's shares his first name with three different characters on Lost: Charles. (Think: Charlie, Charles Widmore, and Charles, the son of Desmond and Penelope.) But L'Engle's Charles preferred to be called by the combination of his first and middle name: Charles Wallace. Wallace: the name at No. 108 on the dial in Jacob's Lighthouse. Now, last week, Charlotte Lewis made a return appearance in the show. Charlotte's father was named David Lewis. David Lewis is a famous philosopher who championed a theory of alternate/possible realities known as modal realities. Lewis' theories were pretty radical. He argued that even fictional fantasy worlds like Lost could exist somewhere within reality. Now, given the knowingly ironic Lost/Supernatural overlap represented by Mark Pellegrino, is it possible that ''Wallace'' is actually Charles Wallace from A Wrinkle In Time? Could he be the one that Hurley needed to bring to The Island? Is he locked up inside that room on Charles Widmore's sub? Or could he already be on The Island? Could he be... Jacob?

Jacob offered Ricardo a job! Moved by Ricardo's point, Jacob said: ''If I don't want to step in maybe you can do it for me. You can be my representative and my intermediary between me and the people I bring to The Island.'' Ricardo wanted compensation. He asked his wife back. Jacob: Can't do that. He asked for absolution of his sins. Jacob: Nope, can't do that either. He then asked for eternal life. His logic: Better than going to hell; and maybe I an accumulate enough penance to improve my chances at Heaven. ''Now that, I can do,'' Jacob said. And with, Jacob touched him, and the Ageless Enigma was born. Let us note two things. If Jacob really was some kind of God/Jesus figure, you'd think he would have been able to grant Ricardo's first two requests. Moreover, Jacob's rejection of Original Sin is provocative for anyone whose theory of a Christ-like Jacob has been informed by Christian theology, as many Christians do believe in Original Sin. Maybe Jacob-Jesus is trying to prove that spiritually renewed people can truly ''go and sin no more'' (John 8:11)? Perhaps The Island isn't a place where people are spiritually tested, but rather where religions are tested for relevancy and truthfulness. Jacob and Smokey are basically quality control experts Inspectors 1 and 2 of Fruit of the Loom holy underwear. And right now, Christianity's up.


NEXT: The way of the cross
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:15 AM   #4817
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Ricardo accepted Jacob's offer. Why not? It's a ''Somewhere Over The Rainbow'' dream come true a sweet, secure life in The New World... minus the love of his life, of course. Ricardo went back to MIB, who knew that Jacob had turned him. But he didn't blame him much. ''He can be very persuasive,'' he said. You got the sense that MIB's current incarceration had something to do with buying into something Jacob had once sold him long ago something that hadn't gone exactly as planned or promised. MIB reminded Ricardo that siding with Jacob meant that he could never see his wife again as if that was truly something he could deliver. (Again, we wonder: Is the Sideways world the fulfillment of MIB's promises?) ''But I want you to know that if you ever change your mind and I mean ever my offer still stands.'' Ricardo gave MIB a gift from Jacob: a white stone, which I took to be nothing more than an inside joke, an ironic declaration of victory (I won Richard's soul! Nah-nah-nah!) punning off of Black Rock. (I get the sense these clever boys enjoy their almost childish cruel winks and coded banter with each other.) MIB in turn gave Ricardo Isabella's cross-necklace. I couldn't tell if MIB was taunting him or being kind with the gesture. Maybe the quiet understanding was that the token served as a talisman for summoning Smokey. Ricardo took it and then buried it...

Only to return over 140 years later to dig it back up and tried to ring up Smokey. ''Does the offer still stand?'' he bellowed. Earlier in the episode, Richard's crisis of faith spurred by the death of Jacob had been reignited by Ilana's claim that Richard was supposed to know what to do next with the candidates. Richard freaked. He had no clue. Yes, Jacob had given him the job to serve as mediator and advisor to Island visitors and assorted Others. But it now seemed that Ricardo was pretty much flying on blind faith and making up the job as he went along. But he had held onto his belief that The Island was hell, and that he was dead, and exasperated by the madness of Jacob's apparent meaninglessness, he stormed off to do what Ben was tempted to do back in ''Dr. Linus'': Switch teams and hook up with someone who offered him something like purpose and hope, even if it meant unleashing darkness upon the earth. Way to go, ''Lancelot.''

But instead of a rendezvous with the devil, Richard got Hurley instead. What followed was an extremely effective and affecting scene that flirted with trite emotional resolution but managed to work thanks to some great acting and direction. Leveraging his Ghost Whisperer secret powers, Hurley was able to facilitate a moment between the living and the dead, between Ricardo and Isabella, and translate and impart some spiritual wisdom that Richard desperately needed to hear. Put another way: Hurley and Richard basically switched roles last night, with Hurley playing Island advisor and Richard playing castaway spiritual seeker. Isabella asked Ricardo why he had buried her cross her soul; her love; his compass. It was a gentle indictment of Ricardo's misplaced values of finding treasure in the material, not spiritual, in what he can hold in the moment, not carry forever in his heart. Isabella then praised his English English, the language they were learning together; the language they had learned form the Bible they read, together; the language of the new world they wanted to be recreated into, together. ''Tell him his English is beautiful,'' Isabella asked Hurley. He did. Gotta admit: Kinda choked up there.

NEXT: Through many dangers, toils, and snares
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If you're not sure who you're voting for at this point in time, you can abandon all connection to the word "smart."
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...He asked who I am voting for. I told him, "well, that depends... ."
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:16 AM   #4818
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Ricardo/Richard had not been able to see or hear Isabella for most of her spectral visit. But at the end, with eyes closed, Ricardo heard her voice, and in her words, he heard what he wanted to hear from the priest several lifetimes earlier: absolution. ''It wasn't your fault that I died, Ricardo,'' Isabella said through Hurley. But the rest Ricardo either heard or felt: ''As much as you wanted to save me, it was my time. You've suffered enough.'' He replied: ''I've missed you. I would do anything for us to be together again.'' She said, ''My love. We are already together.'' Translation: It's what Michael Landon said in that Little House on the Prairie clip from last week: It's about ''knowin' that people aren't really gone when they die. We have all the good memories to sustain us until we see 'em again.'' Alpert's real life namesake, Hindu guru Richard Alpert/Ram Dass, advocates the idea that everything is suffused spirit. With an assist from Hurley, Ricardo/Richard finally earned the eyes to see that, and to recognize that we can let go of Hell and move into Heaven whenever we want. What Ricardo/Richard got was huge whollop of ''Amazing Grace,'' the hymn written by a former slaver during a harrowing night at sea: ''Amazing grace/how sweet the sound/that saved a wretch like me/I once was lost/but now am found/was blind but now I see.''

Over the last several weeks, I've been pushing this idea inspired by those darn Last Supper images that Lost 6.0 was being modeled upon Jesus' Thursday-to-Sunday Passion weekend. That's now unlikely, since last night's episode represented the third day of Jesus' trip to hell and back Easter Sunday. But we did get a story that thematically symbolized resurrection and the restoration of relationship between mankind and the divine. Hence the setting of the episode's climax: a Garden of Eden motif, complete with a proverbial Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil Ground Zero for the big bang's humanity's fall from grace. Ricardo was saved. (Yay!) But then came his Great Commission. (Groan!) Richard's Island mission: Keep the Man In Black from popping that cork or cracking open the bottle and getting out. Interesting, though, that Richard wasn't told he had to try to kill the Man In Black. At least nobody is asking him to play Sayid the Assassin. Still, how can Richard succeed? Did he learn something from this spiritual journey that could help him? Something about love? Something about sacrifice? In many of the mythic stories Lost cites, including A Wrinkle In Time, pure, sincere love makes a difference. Oh, and a good magical sword, too.

NEXT: Turning water into wine
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If you're not sure who you're voting for at this point in time, you can abandon all connection to the word "smart."
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...He asked who I am voting for. I told him, "well, that depends... ."
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:16 AM   #4819
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Nonetheless, I'm not sold on MIB being ''bad'' and Jacob being ''good.'' Neither sold me as wholly trustworthy last night which is fitting. My other big theory of late has been that each episode of Lost this year has been linked to one of The Ten Commandments. This was the 9th hour, so we should have gotten the 9th Commandment, and we did: Do not bare false witness against your neighbor. Translation: Don't lie; don't break a promise. I'm willing to cede that Jacob did right by Richard, fulfilling his promise of giving him purpose and clarity over the course of the episode. But I'm not sure he was telling us the truth about his wine bottle. I accept The Cork. The Cork makes sense. But I wonder if Jacob is wrong about the wine. I get the sense that Jacob isn't keen on death. His only super-power is the one that Satan has: Fall into his clutches, and he gets to keep you forever. I'm not saying he's evil. But I am saying that in so many heroic stories, the real, necessary reality of death is often mistaken for evil. So what if the wine in Jacob's bottle = all the souls that have come to The Island and lost the wager with Smokey? What if all those souls are trapped on The Island because Jacob refuses to let them go? In fact, what if the terms of the wager are akin to one of those Old Testament bets that God would make with his prophets, whereby a while wicked city can be saved if one ''good soul'' can be found? Maybe Jacob has been holding onto all those souls who've lost the wager because he's holding out to find that one good man that can give them all a second chance at life? And maybe Smokey thinks that's fundamentally wrong or unnatural, which is why he's so desperate to just end this whole damn redemption game, so everyone can move on to whatever afterlife they deserve including himself. Breaking the bottle doesn't release a toxic cloud of evil it just sets the prisoners of Jacob's purgatory free. Namaste!?
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If you're not sure who you're voting for at this point in time, you can abandon all connection to the word "smart."
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...He asked who I am voting for. I told him, "well, that depends... ."
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:20 AM   #4820
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Can we get a cliff notes version?
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:30 AM   #4821
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Connect that dot for me, please. Was that disaster referenced in the episode?
Tenerife was where Richard lived in 1867. In 1977 [when Juliet esspodeded the bomb] there was a plane crash [actually two].
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:54 AM   #4822
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One thing I forgot to add, FWIW.

Nestor Carbonell deserves an Emmy for his performance last night.

He was nothing short of amazing. You didn't see Richard in the flashbacks. You saw a simple, fearful man. His English was broken and his voice consistently wavered and cracked. It was NOT the confident, sure-minded Richard we've grown to know over the past 6 years.

The scenes with his wife, especially at the end, were fantastic.

It was an amazing performance.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:56 AM   #4823
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Tenerife was where Richard lived in 1867. In 1977 [when Juliet esspodeded the bomb] there was a plane crash [actually two].
I still don't believe the bomb exploded.

If it had, Juliet and everyone and everything within a 3 mile radius would have been vaporized.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:28 AM   #4824
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Except for that when the bomb went off, they were no longer in the past to be vaporized by it. Or something.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:31 AM   #4825
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Except for that when the bomb went off, they were no longer in the past to be vaporized by it. Or something.
But then why wasn't the metal structure, which was partially pulled into the pit, vaporized? Or the vegetation around the blast area?

I think that the "Sideways" flashes occurred because Jacob was murdered, not because the bomb went off.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:38 AM   #4826
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I still don't believe the bomb exploded.

If it had, Juliet and everyone and everything within a 3 mile radius would have been vaporized.
Agreed.

In the current, on-island timeline that bomb never went off.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:10 PM   #4827
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But then why wasn't the metal structure, which was partially pulled into the pit, vaporized? Or the vegetation around the blast area?

I think that the "Sideways" flashes occurred because Jacob was murdered, not because the bomb went off.
What, then, submerged the island?
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:12 PM   #4828
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What, then, submerged the island?
I have absolutely no idea.

But I don't think that an atomic bomb from the 1950's could have submerged the island. Those things were not that powerful.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:24 PM   #4829
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In the timeline where the bomb was detonated The island is sunken beneath the sea. In that case, if the island really is a cork holding evil at bay then evil has been unleashed the sideways timeline. I've had the feeling that locke is jacob in the sideways timeline. He has said some weird things.
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:27 PM   #4830
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We know the island moves. Which means, theoretically, it isn't attached to the ocean floor. So what's keeping it afloat?

We know that there is at least one "pocket" of energy deep within the island. They drill into this pocket while building the Swan hatch. Perhaps it is this pocket of energy inside and underneath the island that keeps it afloat.

Faraday told us that the bomb would "negate" the pocket of energy. So perhaps (in the alt timeline) the blast (though not strong enough to sink the island itsefl) was strong enough to negate (or sort of "pop") the pocket of energy. With the energy gone there was nothing to keep the island afloat. So it sank.

There you go. That's the best I got.
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