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Old 10-06-2004, 04:29 PM  
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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The Official "Lost" the series discussion

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:16 AM   #5611
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I'm not convinced the island was "real". IMO, the plane crashed and the survivors all entered (I won't call it purgatory) a new world where they must meet their own "tests" and "challenges" before they are willing to move on again toward the light.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:17 AM   #5612
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The MIB didn't have a name because he represented every obstacle Jack faced in his life.
Not sure how accurate, but......

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Old 05-24-2010, 11:27 AM   #5613
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No, I'm not.

And the person that said I was wrong because he was wearing different clothes, I'll ask you this:

When you dream at night, do you always wear the same clothes as you wore that day?
What? What does this even mean? If your contention is that he dreamed it all from the minute he was laying on the ground after the crash, he would have to be wearing the same clothes at the end of the show. Not only that, but how do you explain the haircut, neck, stab wound, blood? You can't, but I'd love to see you try.

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You can chose to believe whatever you chose about the ending, which is why the producers left it ambiguous.
Except, they really didn't leave it ambiguous at all. In fact, they pretty much spelled out exactly what happened in the Jack-Christian conversation, lest anyone believe something dumb like "OMG it was all a dream!" when Christian told Jack that "it was all real" and that "they all died at different times".

With that, Hurley telling Ben he was a "great number 2" (because I assume they lived out the rest of their lives on the island) and Kate telling Jack how much she missed him (probably lived a long life without him) they basically did everything but put up a subtitle at the end of the show that read "HEY GUYS SEE IT WAS ALL REAL, NOT A DREAM!"
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:33 AM   #5614
Rausch Rausch is offline
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Except, they really didn't leave it ambiguous at all. In fact, they pretty much spelled out exactly what happened in the Jack-Christian conversation, lest anyone believe something dumb like "OMG it was all a dream!" when Christian told Jack that "it was all real" and that "they all died at different times".
No.

The whole show was about having or not having faith and what that means.

The characters even stated over and over that "I believe in you." Locke and Jack struggled with faith the whole series. Locke stated "I wish you would have believed/trusted me." ETC.

What you have faith in is unimportant, it's the idea that you believe things will work out for the best in the end.

Once they do whatever meaning you place on that is up to you...
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:39 AM   #5615
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No.

The whole show was about having or not having faith and what that means.

The characters even stated over and over that "I believe in you." Locke and Jack struggled with faith the whole series. Locke stated "I wish you would have believed/trusted me." ETC.

What you have faith in is unimportant, it's the idea that you believe things will work out for the best in the end.

Once they do whatever meaning you place on that is up to you...
Uh..OK. Why did you say NO? How does that disprove what I said? What does it even have to do with what I said?

For the record, I agree with you - Jack had to become a different person to help save the Island (and the world, ultimately), a person like John Locke, a person of faith. It's called a character arc, just like everyone else in the show had. Everyone in the show became a different/better person before they died.. and then once they died, they met up together in that "inbetween" world to move on together. What's so hard to understand about this?
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:48 AM   #5616
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For the record, I agree with you - Jack had to become a different person to help save the Island (and the world, ultimately), a person like John Locke, a person of faith. It's called a character arc, just like everyone else in the show had. Everyone in the show became a different/better person before they died.. and then once they died, they met up together in that "inbetween" world to move on together. What's so hard to understand about this?
Nothing.

I'm just saying that they did leave it ambiguous, and on purpose.

Was it just Jack's elaborate fever dream before death, his life/imagination flashing before him in his final moments?

Did they all really do everything, all seek and get redemption, and then all really meet up after death in a better place?

To me it really doesn't matter. The message is the same...
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:50 AM   #5617
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Quoted from an article in the USA Today. I think they sum up what happened nicely:
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As it turns out, those now-beloved characters weren't just lost in the real world of the island. They were also lost in what many had assumed was an alternate "sideways" universe triggered by last season's atom bomb but was actually a gathering place for the dead as they wait to move on.

In many ways, the finale was designed to reaffirm what producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse have told us for years: The island exists; what happens there matters. If the light (which looked far less cheesy this week than last) had stayed out, the world would have ended.

But they also were reminding us that ultimately, for individuals, saving the world only delays the inevitable. We all die.

So in some ways the 2-hour finale was two journeys, both centered on Jack, each illustrating the themes of individual redemption and group responsibility. On our world, he saved the island, handed the guardian job to Hurley, and died. (For the record, Kate, Sawyer, Claire, Miles, Richard, Lapidus and Desmond eventually left the island; Hurley and Ben stayed.) In the other world, the post-life purgatory where "now" does not exist, he was the final piece that reunited the characters and allowed all to leave a reawakening of memories, theirs and ours, any fan had to cherish.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/televis...T_N.htm?csp=hf
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:57 AM   #5618
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Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
Nothing.

I'm just saying that they did leave it ambiguous, and on purpose.

Was it just Jack's elaborate fever dream before death, his life/imagination flashing before him in his final moments?

Did they all really do everything, all seek and get redemption, and then all really meet up after death in a better place?

To me it really doesn't matter. The message is the same...
But they didnt. Certainly, the show was about faith, finding faith and what it means, etc. The END, again, is spelled out clear as day with all the things I stated earlier. Cuse/Lindelof basically did everything in that finale they could to purposely get across the point that it WASN'T all a dream and that everything on the Island was real and happened for a reason. Basically, to help them overcome whatever they needed to overcome and get them into that church at the end.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:03 PM   #5619
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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What? What does this even mean? If your contention is that he dreamed it all from the minute he was laying on the ground after the crash, he would have to be wearing the same clothes at the end of the show. Not only that, but how do you explain the haircut, neck, stab wound, blood? You can't, but I'd love to see you try.
Love to see me try? What's your problem?

First off, the reason that Jack has had blood on his neck inexplicably throughout this season is because he's actually been dead this entire time. As for the clothes, I explained this earlier: When you dream, are you wearing the same clothes you wore that day?

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Except, they really didn't leave it ambiguous at all. In fact, they pretty much spelled out exactly what happened in the Jack-Christian conversation, lest anyone believe something dumb like "OMG it was all a dream!" when Christian told Jack that "it was all real" and that "they all died at different times".

With that, Hurley telling Ben he was a "great number 2" (because I assume they lived out the rest of their lives on the island) and Kate telling Jack how much she missed him (probably lived a long life without him) they basically did everything but put up a subtitle at the end of the show that read "HEY GUYS SEE IT WAS ALL REAL, NOT A DREAM!"
That's YOUR interpretation, not mine.

This entire show was about one man's journey. His personal struggle with science versus faith. He was not going to "heaven" until he found faith. Everything else was created in his mind as a way to get there.

As I stated earlier, believe what you want to believe. I'm not here to change anyone's mind.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:05 PM   #5620
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What? What does this even mean? If your contention is that he dreamed it all from the minute he was laying on the ground after the crash, he would have to be wearing the same clothes at the end of the show. Not only that, but how do you explain the haircut, neck, stab wound, blood? You can't, but I'd love to see you try.



Except, they really didn't leave it ambiguous at all. In fact, they pretty much spelled out exactly what happened in the Jack-Christian conversation, lest anyone believe something dumb like "OMG it was all a dream!" when Christian told Jack that "it was all real" and that "they all died at different times".

With that, Hurley telling Ben he was a "great number 2" (because I assume they lived out the rest of their lives on the island) and Kate telling Jack how much she missed him (probably lived a long life without him) they basically did everything but put up a subtitle at the end of the show that read "HEY GUYS SEE IT WAS ALL REAL, NOT A DREAM!"
FTR, I interpreted it pretty much the way you did, but I'll point out that if it was all Jack's dream, it's completely possible for Jack to dream he's a changed person at the end (complete with different haircut and different clothes) and for him to dream that his father told him it was all real.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:05 PM   #5621
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But they didnt. Certainly, the show was about faith, finding faith and what it means, etc. The END, again, is spelled out clear as day with all the things I stated earlier. Cuse/Lindelof basically did everything in that finale they could to purposely get across the point that it WASN'T all a dream and that everything on the Island was real and happened for a reason. Basically, to help them overcome whatever they needed to overcome and get them into that church at the end.
I agree with you on the ending, BTW.

It is linear when you think about it. And I think the writers did a great job blending faith and science.

Religion: Man's attempt to understand why God does what he does.

Science: Man's attempt to understand how God does it...
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:09 PM   #5622
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FTR, I interpreted it pretty much the way you did, but I'll point out that if it was all Jack's dream, it's completely possible for Jack to dream he's a changed person at the end (complete with different haircut and different clothes) and for him to dream that his father told him it was all real.

Sure, if it was all a dream - but to believe that you'd have to stubbornly read way too deeply between the lines and believe that everything the show told you in this episode was a lie. There's virtually here that lends credence to it being Jack's dream. To think that it was is nothing less than foolish.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:11 PM   #5623
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That's YOUR interpretation, not mine.

This entire show was about one man's journey. His personal struggle with science versus faith. He was not going to "heaven" until he found faith. Everything else was created in his mind as a way to get there.

As I stated earlier, believe what you want to believe. I'm not here to change anyone's mind.
So your interpretation is that when Christian tells Jack (and the audience) that it was real, he's really lying? And that when he tells Jack that the characters all died at different times, but ended up here to be together, that he's just spewing BS because those people are all figments of Jack's imagination? And that when Hurley tells Ben he was a "great number 2" in a scene that had nothing to do with Jack, that is uh...what? Something in Jack's head too? I think you had this grand scheme of how you thought it would end and are having trouble reconciling that with the reality of what actually happened in this episode.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:15 PM   #5624
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Sure, if it was all a dream - but to believe that you'd have to stubbornly read way too deeply between the lines and believe that everything the show told you in this episode was a lie. There's virtually here that lends credence to it being Jack's dream. To think that it was is nothing less than foolish.
I think you've missed the point of the entire series:

This whole show, from beginning to end, was Jack's journey from being a Man of Science to becoming a Man of Faith. Once he was able to have faith, he was able to move on in death.

The rest of the characters and backstory were flesh out in the past 6 years to make it more "real" but in the end, it was all about Jack.

Also, staying away from "the light" was just a plot device. Jack wasn't ready to enter the light until he had successfully battled all of his demons and became a man of faith.

But again, you can believe whatever you choose to believe.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:16 PM   #5625
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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So your interpretation is that when Christian tells Jack (and the audience) that it was real, he's really lying? And that when he tells Jack that the characters all died at different times, but ended up here to be together, that he's just spewing BS because those people are all figments of Jack's imagination? And that when Hurley tells Ben he was a "great number 2" in a scene that had nothing to do with Jack, that is uh...what? Something in Jack's head too? I think you had this grand scheme of how you thought it would end and are having trouble reconciling that with the reality of what actually happened in this episode.
Actually, I think you're the type of person that needs a straight line explanation and are unable to think outside of the "box".

I'm happy for you but we'll just agree to disagree, okay?
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