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Old 10-14-2004, 12:43 PM  
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
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GOP Director Jim Dyke Complains About Kerry Bashing Cheney's Gay Daughter

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Old 10-14-2004, 12:45 PM   #2
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I'm not sure, is this a joke? I've never heard of this guy before and his last name leads me to suspect a joke is at hand.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:53 PM   #3
HolmeZz HolmeZz is offline
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Nope, his name's Jim Dyke. He was just on DaySide with Linda V3ster.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:57 PM   #4
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Heh heh heh. How appropriate.

Let me guess. His family originally came from the Isle of Lesbos?
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:19 PM   #5
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I really hope the Cons keep about this...because as Andrew Sullivan says it reflects more negatively on them than it does Kerry.

www.andrewsullivan.com

SOMETHING MORE ABOUT MARY: The Mary Cheney thing really is a fascinating Rorschach test. Many conservatives are appalled and cast their anti-Kerry opinion as a defense of Mary. Here's one:
Last night he allowed his obsession with his own selfish desire to win a point overshadow the appropriate boundaries of taste, compassion, and kindess. Lynne Cheney has the right to call him a bad man. And woman across the nation have the right to see for themselves that he is willing to victimize THEM if it comes to padding his advantage, reputation, position, or standing.

Victimize? All Kerry did was invoke the veep's daughter to point out that obviously homosexuality isn't a choice, in any meaningful sense. The only way you can believe that citing Mary Cheney amounts to "victimization" is if you believe someone's sexual orientation is something shameful. Well, it isn't. What's revealing is that this truly does expose the homophobia of so many - even in the mildest "we'll-tolerate-you-but-shut-up-and-don't-complain" form. Mickey Kaus, for his part, cannot see any reason for Kerry to mention Mary except as some Machiavellian scheme to pander to bigots. Again: huh? Couldn't it just be that Kerry thinks of gay people as human beings like straight people - and mentioning their lives is not something we should shrink from? Isn't that the simplest interpretation? In many speeches on marriage rights, I cite Mary Cheney. Why? Because it exposes the rank hypocrisy of people like president Bush and Dick and Lynne Cheney who don't believe gays are anti-family demons but want to win the votes of people who do. I'm not outing any gay person. I'm outing the double standards of straight ones. They've had it every which way for decades, when gay people were invisible. Now they have to choose.

DOUBLE STANDARDS: Let me give you an example of the double standards here. I remember once being driven around by a charming woman on a stop on a book tour. We talked about my book, and she averred, after chatting all day, that she had nothing against gay people, she just wished they wouldn't "bring it up" all the time. I responded: "But you've been talking about your heterosexuality ever since I got in the car." She said: "I haven't. I've never once discussed sex." My response: "Within two minutes, you mentioned your children and your husband. You talked about your son's work at high school. You mentioned your husband's line of work. And on and on. You wear your heterosexuality on your sleeve all the time. And that's fine. But if I so much as mention the fact that I'm gay, I'm told it's all I care about, and that I should pipe down. Don't you see the double standard?" Candidates mention their families all the time. An entire question last night was devoted to the relationship between men and their wives and daughters. Mentioning Mary Cheney is no more and no less offensive than that. What is offensive is denying gay couples equal rights in the constitution itself. Why don't conservatives get exercized about that?

LET MARY SPEAK: Mickey posits a perilous race analogy:
What if Kerry were debating a conservative on affirmative action, and that conservative had a black wife, and Kerry gratuitously brought that up in an attempt to cost his opponent the racist vote? Would Andrew Sullivan approve? I don't think so. ...
First off, I don't buy the cynical explanation of Kerry's reference. But secondly, affirmative action isn't a strong enough analogy. Let's say the president was proposing the real analogy: a constitutional amendment to ban inter-racial marriage. Now let's say the veep's daughter was married to a black man. Would it be relevant then? Of course it would. But there is an obvious solution to this debate: let Mary speak. She's running the veep's campaign. She's an adult. Why can't she tell us if she's upset by Kerry's and Edwards' remarks? Give her a microphone, guys. What are you afraid of?
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:21 PM   #6
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Let the double entendre's begin!
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:25 PM   #7
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So we've gone from Kerry being too sensitive, now to Bush Administration being too sensitive. I love it.
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Old 10-14-2004, 02:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HolmeZz
Nope, his name's Jim Dyke. He was just on DaySide with Linda V3ster.

Well if it's not a joke, it should be.
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Old 10-14-2004, 02:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homey
So we've gone from Kerry being too sensitive, now to Bush Administration being too sensitive. I love it.

No, no, no little homey, we've gone from Kerry being too sensitive to him being too insesitive.
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Old 10-14-2004, 02:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homey
So we've gone from Kerry being too sensitive, now to Bush Administration being too sensitive. I love it.
If the "fate of the nation" wasn't at stake, it would be like watching daytime TV. Something I try never to do.
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Old 10-14-2004, 02:33 PM   #11
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Mentioning Mary Cheney is no more and no less offensive than that.
I'm sorry, Sullivan is FOS on this one. Listen to the clip. Listen to it.

"I'm sure if you asked Mary Cheney, . . . . who is. . . a . . . . . Lesbian . . . "

It's the difference between saying Tom Cruise is a horrible actor, and saying "Tom Cruise, . . . who is a . . . homo. . . is a bad actor."
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Old 10-14-2004, 02:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee
I'm sorry, Sullivan is FOS on this one. Listen to the clip. Listen to it.

"I'm sure if you asked Mary Cheney, . . . . who is. . . a . . . . . Lesbian . . . "

It's the difference between saying Tom Cruise is a horrible actor, and saying "Tom Cruise, . . . who is a . . . homo. . . is a bad actor."

Let's be honest, the problem is he used the "L word" if he had just said she's gay (like Edwards did) then Cons wouldn't have their panties in a twist. That is a nice non-specific gender remark.

The problem is he was specific using the "L word" and in his specificity he was more graphic. There is no doubt that using the term he did there is girl with girl sex...with all the graphic sordid details that entails.

THAT is the problem. He was too honestly graphic in his description. Had he stuck to non-gender specific terms then this issue probably would not be raising the fake righteous indignation that we've witnessed all morning.
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Old 10-14-2004, 03:48 PM   #13
Raiderhader Raiderhader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfI
Let's be honest, the problem is he used the "L word" if he had just said she's gay (like Edwards did) then Cons wouldn't have their panties in a twist. That is a nice non-specific gender remark.

The problem is he was specific using the "L word" and in his specificity he was more graphic. There is no doubt that using the term he did there is girl with girl sex...with all the graphic sordid details that entails.

THAT is the problem. He was too honestly graphic in his description. Had he stuck to non-gender specific terms then this issue probably would not be raising the fake righteous indignation that we've witnessed all morning.

I rather doubt that has anything to do with it. I think the real out rage is that Kerry used Cheney's daughter in an attempt to capatilize on the difference of opinion between Cheney and his President. He could have just pointed the difference of opinion, however he chose to bring Ms. Cheney into it which was completely unnecessary.

Am I outraged by this? No, for two reasons: it was a patheticly cheap tactic (as is evidenced by the fact that it was completely unnecessary) that is not deserving of outrage; this is the major leagues, things like this are to be expected, especially from someone like Kerry. This demonstrated his true calculating self. The populcae should be disappointed by the shot, but not outraged. Leave that emotion to the Cheney family if they desire to indulge it.
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Old 10-14-2004, 03:53 PM   #14
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I don't think he was "bashing" anyone..........but I think, given his pause before saying it, even Kerry knew it was out of line.
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Old 10-14-2004, 05:33 PM   #15
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Heh heh heh. How appropriate.

Let me guess. His family originally came from the Isle of Lesbos?

You know I posted this just for you Piscosis...
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