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Old 10-15-2004, 06:07 PM  
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The Chip on John O'Neill's shoulder further exposed byABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Vote...=166434&page=1

What Happened in Kerry's Vietnam Battles? 'Nightline' Speaks to Witnesses of Disputed Firefights

By ANDREW MORSE

Oct. 14, 2004 -- Oct. 15, 2004 - In the controversy over Sen. John Kerry's service in Vietnam, Americans have heard from Kerry, from the crew of the Navy Swift boats he commanded and from other Swift boat veterans who question the official account of a 1969 incident for which Kerry was awarded a Silver Star. But there is one group they have not heard from: the Vietnamese who were there that day.

According to the military citation, Kerry was awarded the medal for his actions during an intense firefight on Feb. 28, 1969, during which he shot and killed a Viet Cong fighter who was armed with a rocket launcher. Members of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth group have charged that the Viet Cong fighter was a teenager who was alone, who was not part of a numerically superior force, and who was already wounded and running away when Kerry shot him.

"Nightline" traveled to Vietnam and found a number of witnesses who have never been heard from before, and who have no particular ax to grind for or against Kerry. Only one of them, in fact, even knew who Kerry is. The witnesses, all Vietnamese, are still living in the same villages where the fighting took place more than 35 years ago. A "Nightline" producer visited them and recorded their accounts of that day. The accounts were subsequently translated by a team of ABC News translators.


A Village Unchanged
Life along the Bay Hap River in southern Vietnam has changed very little in those years. The river is lined with small hamlets and isolated shacks reachable only by boat. They are surrounded by marshland, separated by winding canals, and concealed by thick walls of vegetation.

The canals lead to Tran Thoi village, the coordinates of which are publicly available in the U.S. military's after-action report on the 1969 battle. The Vietnamese government initially rejected "Nightline's" request to visit the village, saying it did not want to somehow influence the U.S. presidential election. Once "Nightline" explained that the intention was to simply find out what the Vietnamese people remember and think of what happened there, permission was granted.

On Feb. 28, 1969, a convoy of three American Swift boats came up the river under the command of Lt. John Kerry, arriving at the village of Tran Thoi. According to Kerry's medal citation, the boats "came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than 50 feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant [junior grade] Kerry ordered his boat to attack."

The Swift boats, which were transporting a group of the Americans' South Vietnamese allies, turned into the ambush and beached. According to the after-action report, the South Vietnamese troops stormed ashore, overwhelming the local insurgents.


More Fighting
The fierce firefight at Tran Thoi was just the beginning of the day that has become so central to Kerry's biography. Kerry's boat, PCF 94, and one of the other boats continued upriver. The ABC News team took the same route to the site of the second deadly incident that day.

According to the Navy's official report, following the initial ambush, Kerry's boat and another Swift boat continued up the river to an area where gunshots had been reported.

Less than a kilometer upriver is Nha Vi, a small hamlet. Vo Van Tam, now 54, was a local Viet Cong commander during the war. According to him, the area was a hotbed of guerrilla activity. They had recently been reinforced by a 12-man unit, supplied with small arms and one B-40 rocket launcher. He said the reinforcements had been dispatched from provincial headquarters specifically to target the Swift boats.

According to Vo, there were at least 20 Viet Cong soldiers at Nha Vi there that day. "There were 12 soldiers from the provincial level and eight from the district level," he said.

His wife, Vo Thi Vi, 54, said Feb. 28, 1969, is a day that the villagers of Nha Vi hamlet will never forget. "Everything was destroyed," she said. "There's no houses left. They leveled everything. There was no leaves left. The fighting was very fierce."

According to the citation for Kerry's Silver Star, when the boats approached the hamlet, "a B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF 94" -- Kerry's boat. He "personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy," the citation says, before commending Kerry's "extraordinary daring and personal courage" for "attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire."

That account is disputed by Swift boat veteran John O'Neill, author of "Unfit for Command," who maintains in his book that the statement "is simply false. There was little or no fire."


Different Accounts
Villagers say this is what they saw:

"Firing from over here. Firing from over there. Firing from the boat," Vo Thi Vi told "Nightline."

She was only a couple hundred yards away when a Swift boat turned and approached the shore, she said, adding that the boat was unleashing a barrage of gunfire as it approached.

"I ran," she recalled, "Running fast. ... And the Americans came from down there, yelling 'Attack, Attack!' And we ran."

Her husband, Tam, said the man who fired the B-40 rocket was hit in this barrage of gunfire. Then, he said, "he ran about 18 meters before he died, falling dead."

Was the man killed by Kerry or by fire from the Swift boat? It was the heat of battle, Tam said, and he doesn't know exactly how the man with the rocket launcher died. But he knows the man's name -- Ba Thanh. He was one of the 12 reinforcements sent to the village by provincial headquarters, and after he died, the firefight continued, according to Tam.

"When the firing started, Ba Thanh was killed," Tam said. "And I led Ba Thanh's comrades, the whole unit, to fight back. And we ran around the back and fought the Americans from behind. We worked with the city soldiers to fire on the American boats."

According to the after-action report, after beaching the Swift boat, Kerry "chased VC inland, behind hooch, and shot him while he fled, capturing one B-40 rocket launcher, with round in chamber."

None of the villagers seems to be able to say for a fact that they saw an American chase the man who fired the B-40 into the woods and shoot him. Nobody seems to remember that. But they have no problem remembering Ba Thanh, the man who has been dismissed by Kerry's detractors as "a lone, wounded, fleeing, young Vietcong in a loincloth." (The description comes from "Unfit for Command," by Swift boat veteran John O'Neill.)

"No, this is not correct," Nguyen Thi Tuoi, 77, told ABC News. "He wore a black pajama. He was strong. He was big and strong. He was about 26 or 27."

Tuoi said she didn't see Ba Thanh get shot either, but she and her husband say they were the first to find his body. They say they found him a good distance from his bunker, though she could not confirm that Kerry -- or anyone else -- had pursued him into the bush.

Her husband, Nguyen Van Ty, in his 80s, had a slightly different account of how Ba Thanh died.

"I didn't see anything because I was hiding from the bullets and the bombs," he said. "It was very fierce and there was shooting everywhere and the leaves were being shredded to pieces. I was afraid to stay up there. I had to hide. And then, when it was over, I saw Ba Thanh was dead. He may have been shot in the chest when he stood up."

He also said the Swift boats were coming under attack from the Viet Cong fighters on shore. "We tried to shoot at the boat," he said, "but we didn't hit anything."

Kerry's citation says he "uncovered an enemy rest and supply area, which was destroyed," but according to the villagers, the Americans missed the military supplies. In fact, Vo Ti Vi said, just a few weeks after the attack, the Viet Cong raided a U.S. base stealing weapons and ammunition. The weapons remain in Nha Vi all these years later, she says, buried under her garden.

Back in Tran Thoi, villager Nguyen Van Khoai said that about six months ago he was visited by an American who described himself as a Swift boat veteran and told him another American from the Swift boats was running for president of the United States. Nguyen said the man was accompanied by a cameraman.

"They say he didn't do anything to deserve the medal," Nguyen said. "The other day, they came and asked me the questions and I said that the recognition for the medal is up to the U.S.A."

He said that, after they met, the Swift Boat veteran and the cameraman turned around and went back down the river. "Nightline" has not been able to identify the men.


Campaign Issue Arises
His awards should have been the most unassailable part of Kerry's record. But then came those campaign ads from the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. "He is lying about his record," said Ensign Al French in one ad.

Most of the charges in the ads were general: "When the chips were down you could not count on John Kerry," said Lt. j.g. Larry Thurlow. "John Kerry is no war hero," said Lt. Bob Elder. Some of the charges referred to the anti-war testimony Kerry gave before Congress.

But John O'Neill, the officer who took over command of Kerry's Swift boat after Kerry left Vietnam, raised some specific questions about the incident for which Kerry received his most significant award, the Silver Star:

"In the Silver Star incident, John Kerry's citation reflects that he charged into a numerically superior force, and into intense fire," O'Neill told ABC News in an August 2004 interview. "But the actual facts are that there was a single kid there who had fired a rocket, who popped up, and John Kerry with his gunboat, with or without a number of troops, depending on who you talk to, plopped in front of the kid. The kid was wounded in the legs by machine gun fire, and as he ran off, John Kerry jumped off the boat and shot the kid in the back."

Copyright © 2004 ABC News Internet Ventures
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:13 PM   #2
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:16 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Bwana
That's what you do, you discredit the SBV's, and give credulence to Vietnamese witnesses.
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:17 PM   #4
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Statement from John O'Neill

Quote:
While I have a tremendous amount of respect for Ted Koppel and ABC News I was appalled to learn that ABC News would go to the lengths of traveling to Vietnam to interview three Viet Cong communists in yet a third attempt by ABC to corroborate John Kerry’s version of the events that took place on February 28th, 1969.
I would only ask the American people: "Who do you trust more, three members of a communist regime that tortured and killed our American troops or a group of more than 280 highly decorated American veterans, who proudly served their country and are now responsible members of their respective communities?"

The number of veterans who support John Kerry’s accounts of his military service would not fill one Swift Boat. But instead of sitting down to interview some of the 280 plus members of our Swift Boat organization, ABC News chose to travel to Vietnam taking extraordinary and highly suspect steps to find someone to corroborate John Kerry's story.

ABC News Nightline has now dedicated three separate programs to this one incident while ignoring John Kerry's now discredited Senate testimony that he spent Christmas in Cambodia, his receiving a purple heart after all three of the officers required to approve such an issuance rejected his application, or his constantly changing account of the circumstances surrounding his remaining medal, a bronze star.

Further, one has to wonder why ABC News will not address the serious questions as to why John Kerry only received an honorable discharge through the act of then President Carter, seven years after his discharge, and had to have all of his military citations reissued, on the same day, when he became a United States Senator in 1985. And, finally, why has Nightline found it of no interest to permit any POWs to come on their program to explain why they believe John Kerry betrayed their nation, caused them to be incarcerated for an additional two years and caused them tremendous additional hardship and suffering.

-- John O'Neill
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:24 PM   #5
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Ask Kerry to talk about his Bronze Star. The one that says he was wounded and was bleeding from his arm (while he now admits that he had a bruise). The one that Kerry said, in 2000 to the congressional record, began with his boat hitting a mine and being thrown 2 feet into the air (his boat didn't hit a mine according to Kerry support Del Sandusky). The one that Kerry said led to all the boats in his patrol fleeing in the midst of a firefight (when the Washington Post discovered that it was only Kerry's boat that traveled up to a mile down river before returning). The one that Kerry now says led to Jim Rassman being knocked off his boat by an explosion (contradicting what he said in 2000 when he said that Rassmann fell off when he made a high speed maneuver). The one that Kerry won a purple heart for even though Rassmann now says the injury cited in the report for that day that mentions Kerry receiving shrapnel actually occured in the absence of the enemy earlier in the day when he and Kerry blew up enemy rice.

And don't take my word for it Frankie...all of this info comes from Kerry's own mouth by way of the congressional record (during a eulogy for a friend on that mission), from the Washington Post, and from Kerry supporters Del Sandusky and Jim Rassmann.
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:33 PM   #6
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Wait, I think I understand what really happened.... There was heavy fire, but not from the VietCong...Kerry had been acting like an arrogant jackass (probably more so than now), and his crew started firing near him so he would get scared out of his mind and shut up.
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:35 PM   #7
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So a Viet Cong enemy has more validity than an American Soldier?
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:38 PM   #8
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Who wrote the citations for John Kerry's medals? Was that the American military?
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanT
Who wrote the citations for John Kerry's medals? Was that the American military?
Who wrote the recommendations and medical releases?
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCWolfman
So a Viet Cong enemy has more validity than an American Soldier?

Hasn't that always been the case with these people?
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Who wrote the recommendations and medical releases?
From what I know of the process, it was members of the American military, not Viet Cong.
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanT
From what I know of the process, it was members of the American military, not Viet Cong.
Then why the need to interview VietCong now?
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by First Down Elvis
That's what you do, you discredit the SBV's, and give credulence to Vietnamese witnesses.
Are these the swift boat veterans on Kerry's boat or the ones with an axe to grind?

If the discussion is about what happened on that river, and specifically Kerry's boat, then I tend to believe the people that were there, and on his boat

If the discussion is the hatred stirred by Kerry's protestation of the war after he returned home, then I understand their contempt.

But to confuse the two or distort the truth to unfairly malign someone for reasons other than those stated is slimey, IMO.
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:00 PM   #14
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If the MSM really wanted to seek the truth, wouldn't they at least interview the swift vets? It appears to me that the MSM is more interested in trying to vindicate Kerry than to actually investigate the issues..

It's a joke.. They'll investigate every lead to the fullest extent if it could harm the President.. I'm amazed that some people can't see that..

God, I hope I'm not that blind..
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Seahawk
If the MSM really wanted to seek the truth, wouldn't they at least interview the swift vets? It appears to me that the MSM is more interested in trying to vindicate Kerry than to actually investigate the issues..

It's a joke.. They'll investigate every lead to the fullest extent if it could harm the President.. I'm amazed that some people can't see that..

God, I hope I'm not that blind..

Well this is ABC, and we already know that they have two sets of standards for reporting on Bush and Kerry as is evidenced in one of their own memos.
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