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Old 10-18-2004, 10:59 AM  
Hel'n Hel'n is offline
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U.S.: Too Early to Tell Iraq Unit's Fate

Oct 18, 12:50 PM (ET)

By TINI TRAN

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The U.S. military said Monday no decision had been made on whether to discipline Army reservists who refused a supply mission last week, despite statements from their relatives that the soldiers would be discharged.

"It is too early in the process to tell if any disciplinary actions will be initiated," Maj. Richard Spiegel, spokesman for the 13th Corps Support Command in Taji, said in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

Families of some soldiers involved said Monday the commanders did not act on complaints that the convoy was hauling contaminated fuel or that their vehicles were in poor working order and were not sufficiently protected with armor.

Spiegel said no decision will be made on discipline until the investigation is completed and recommendations are made.

"I could not speculate as to why soldiers would be telling people that they are going to be discharged," he said.

The Army announced last week it was investigating up to 19 members of a platoon from the 343rd Quartermaster Company, based in Rock Hill, S.C., after they refused to transport supplies from Tallil air base near Nasiriyah to Taji north of Baghdad.

On Monday, Ricky Shealey of Quinton, Ala., father of one of the soldiers involved, told CBS'"The Early Show" that his son, Spc. Scott Shealey, "is being told he is going to be processed out of the Army with a general" discharge.

Shealey said his son "is very depressed about this."

A general discharge is consider a disciplinary action that would lead soldiers to risk losing most - if not all - of their veterans' benefits.

However, the commanding general of the 13th Corps Support Command, Brig. Gen. James Chambers, told reporters in Baghdad on Sunday that two investigations were under way and that 18 soldiers were involved. He also said none was under arrest and it was too early to tell whether the soldiers would be disciplined.

Shealey said his son refused to go on the mission because the fuel they were to haul was tainted and he feared it would be put in a helicopter that would later crash.

"The command just totally ignored them when they told them the fuel was contaminated and they was still going to send them out on this mission with contaminated fuel," Shealey told CBS. "The command was completely aware of the situation and I think it's a command issue and not a soldier issue."

Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., the mother of Spc. Amber McClenny, told NBC's "Today" show: "It was about the fuel. It was the broken-down trucks. Unarmored vehicles."

Chambers denied the fuel was contaminated.

He said the Army will study protective measures for supply vehicles and add steel plating if necessary. Some of the soldiers told family members they refused the assignment because they lacked proper equipment and protection.

Chambers said the command will "assess armor" on supply vehicles, which are often subject to insurgent attack, and add steel plating if necessary.

The mission was later carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.

Chambers has since ordered the 343rd to undergo a "safety-maintenance stand down," during which it will conduct no further missions as its vehicles are inspected, the military said.

The platoon has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina and South Carolina.

The issue of lack of appropriate equipment has been a long-standing complaint by low-level soldiers and higher U.S. command.

Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq from mid-2003 until this summer, sent a letter to the Pentagon in December 2003 complaining that supplies were short and this was adversely affecting the ability of troops to fight, The Washington Post reported Monday.

Sanchez, who has returned to an assignment in Germany, told top Army officials in the Dec. 4 letter there was a severe lack of key parts for equipment vital to the mission, and the problem was so severe that "I cannot continue to support sustained combat operations with rates this low," the newspaper said.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D85PV8EO1.html
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:02 AM   #2
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Plain and simple, court marshal followed by discharge (unfavorable), with possible Leavenworth time.
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbrian
Plain and simple, court marshal followed by discharge (unfavorable), with possible Leavenworth time.
Perhaps. But will the brass pay attention to the message... If you put your people at risk, at least give them a fighting chance...
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:15 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hel'n
Perhaps. But will the brass pay attention to the message... If you put your people at risk, at least give them a fighting chance...
Totally immaterial, they disobeyed orders and put others at risk, two wrongs do not make a right but the UCMJ is pretty plain on the issue of disobedience of orders.

Case in point, while in my last week of text school in the Air Force, it was common practice not to give Airmen duty, however I had run afoul of my First shirt over the course of my schooling.
He placed me on the duty board, which I did not check, the net result I received an article 13 for being AWOL even though I was in my bunk.

Results two weeks labor and forfeiture of $50 pay.
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbrian
Totally immaterial, they disobeyed orders and put others at risk, two wrongs do not make a right but the UCMJ is pretty plain on the issue of disobedience of orders.

Case in point, while in my last week of text school in the Air Force, it was common practice not to give Airmen duty, however I had run afoul of my First shirt over the course of my schooling.
He placed me on the duty board, which I did not check, the net result I received an article 13 for being AWOL even though I was in my bunk.

Results two weeks labor and forfeiture of $50 pay.

I guess we disagree. If an order is immoral or if an order essentially is a suicide mission without due consideration of the facts by top brass then as the commanding officer of my unit it would be my duty to make this known and find some means, any means, of reticfying the deficiencies before I put my troops in harm's way.
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hel'n
I guess we disagree. If an order is immoral or if an order essentially is a suicide mission without due consideration of the facts by top brass then as the commanding officer of my unit it would be my duty to make this known and find some means, any means, of reticfying the deficiencies before I put my troops in harm's way.

DIP (Die in place) missions don't count. This particular order was not immoral.

Makes a guy wonder why it's alway's (seem to be anyway) the NG and Reservists that cause so much shit in the military.
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hel'n
I guess we disagree. If an order is immoral or if an order essentially is a suicide mission without due consideration of the facts by top brass then as the commanding officer of my unit it would be my duty to make this known and find some means, any means, of reticfying the deficiencies before I put my troops in harm's way.
"The mission was later carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said."

Does not appear to have been a suicide mission.
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Old 10-18-2004, 12:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hel'n
I guess we disagree. If an order is immoral or if an order essentially is a suicide mission without due consideration of the facts by top brass then as the commanding officer of my unit it would be my duty to make this known and find some means, any means, of reticfying the deficiencies before I put my troops in harm's way.
I’d hardly call this a “suicide mission”.
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Old 10-18-2004, 12:03 PM   #9
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Old 10-18-2004, 12:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbrian
"The mission was later carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said."

Does not appear to have been a suicide mission.
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Old 10-18-2004, 12:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
essentially is a suicide mission ...
It's times like these that we need the LITE Beer From Miller referee to come in :

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Suicide mission?
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Old 10-18-2004, 12:35 PM   #12
Hel'n Hel'n is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbrian
"The mission was later carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said."

Does not appear to have been a suicide mission.
You don't know the details. You don't know the equipment that was used when the mission was carried out by another group.

The fact is we don't know the facts...
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Old 10-18-2004, 12:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hel'n
You don't know the details. You don't know the equipment that was used when the mission was carried out by another group.

The fact is we don't know the facts...
... especially the fact that it was a suicide mission...
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Old 10-18-2004, 12:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hel'n
You don't know the details. You don't know the equipment that was used when the mission was carried out by another group. The fact is we don't know the facts...
Didn't stop you from starting a thread about it and implying that there were "deficiencies" ignored that put the troops in harm's way.
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Old 10-18-2004, 12:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hel'n
You don't know the details. You don't know the equipment that was used when the mission was carried out by another group.

The fact is we don't know the facts...
-------------------------------------------------------------
The fact is this unit put two other groups of people at risk by not completing their assigned mission....
(1) the unit they were to resupply
(2) the other unit that had to pick up their slack and carryout the mission for the original unit

It's a sad day if we let soldiers pick and choose the missions they are assigned.
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