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Old 10-22-2004, 01:18 PM  
WoodDraw WoodDraw is offline
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Do either of these canidates have a plan for the deficit?

Kerry's plan seems to be tax the rich which will somehow prodouce billions of dollars to pay for a whole slew of social programs while cutting the deficit in half. Right.

Bush's plan seems to be cut taxes, spend more, and then promise to cut the deficit. Again, right.

What this country needs right now is a fiscal conservative who isn't afraid to stop spending AND raise taxes. Unfortuantely, neither of these canidates come anywhere close to that.
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Old 10-22-2004, 01:34 PM   #2
Iowanian Iowanian is offline
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I don't know..........Kerry just plans to fix everything by taking away the Bush tax cuts. (another business related one signed today).

The way I understand it, the basics of the Bush plan for the deficit is to reduce taxes, stimulate the economy with that and low interest rates to encourage small business growth...............by stimulating the economy and creating jobs and good cheer, people will buy more, spend more, build more etc.............which will bring in more tax money..........................which will be used on the govt debt.
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Old 10-22-2004, 01:39 PM   #3
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I agree with you completely WoodDraw. Kerry has spent the funds from the tax hike he's proposing four different ways already and I doubt that cutting the deficit will win out over his health care program, social security, national defense (which he's brought up more as an attack against Bush than a legitimate plan to beef up the military) and cutting the decifit in half.

Same with Bush although he can at least draw a straight line between his belief that more money in people's pockets = more products sold = more people working = more people with money to spend = more tax revenues. Tax cuts DO spur revenue increases, but whenever the deficit reduction is supposedly coming five years down the road you can't really take that deficit reduction plan seriously.

I think the real problem with the deficit is that there really never was this huge surplus to begin with (yes, there was a surplus for a few years, but that was a symptom, not a result, of what was happening in the economy). The trillion dollar surpluses were arrived at by taking the inflated capital gains revenues from the dot-com boom and sending them out into the future as far as the eye can see. When those revenues - which should never have existed to begin with were it not for the stupidity of a lot of people with a lot of money willing to buy into companies that had no earthly reason to exist - dried up the shortfall was immediate and totaled more than $3 trillion. Add in the recession that came with the downturn and throw in the 9/11 attacks (and resulting expense of fighting the ensuing war) and you get a huge part of where the deficit originates.
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Old 10-22-2004, 01:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian
I don't know..........Kerry just plans to fix everything by taking away the Bush tax cuts. (another business related one signed today).
But he refuses to admit that he'll be dealing with a Republican congress and that most of the money saved will go towards his new social programs.

Quote:
The way I understand it, the basics of the Bush plan for the deficit is to reduce taxes, stimulate the economy with that and low interest rates to encourage small business growth...............by stimulating the economy and creating jobs and good cheer, people will buy more, spend more, build more etc.............which will bring in more tax money..........................which will be used on the govt debt.
But in order to do that he'll have to actually be fiscally conservative, something he has been the exact opposite of. He can promise to not increase spending but he'll need to actually cut the spending of some programs and stop congress from tacking on their usual shit.


Whatever. Both of these canidates are looking worse by the day. Maybe I'll just vote Libertarian and pray for a quick four years.
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Old 10-22-2004, 01:57 PM   #5
Iowanian Iowanian is offline
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I don't disagree with anything you've said on the thread.
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Old 10-22-2004, 02:40 PM   #6
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Though I'm sure many will disagree, a Kerry presidency would do far more to reduce the deficit because he would collect more tax revenue, but he wouldn't be able to spend much more money because the House and Senate would never approve his spending measures.

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Old 10-22-2004, 02:43 PM   #7
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HEY! Thereíll be no discussion of relevant political topics here. Donít you know where you are?




Actually I agree, neither candidate is impressing me with his spending habits.
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Old 10-22-2004, 02:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Do either of these canidates have a plan for the deficit?
Yes... they'll both increase it.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:11 PM   #9
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HC_Chief
Yes... they'll both increase it.
Agreed...

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I'd vote Republican if he was a fiscal conservative, social liberal (or just social moderate). Unfortunately, that type of Republican will NEVER be nominated for President. Their nominating process would never allow it.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Infidel Goat
because he would collect more tax revenue
And here we see another person who thinks that we can tax ourselves into prosperity.

Do you also think that you can stand in a bucket and lift yourself up by the handle?
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:30 PM   #11
HC_Chief HC_Chief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix
Agreed...

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I'd vote Republican if he was a fiscal conservative, social liberal (or just social moderate). Unfortunately, that type of Republican will NEVER be nominated for President. Their nominating process would never allow it.
Giuliani, '08!
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix
Agreed...

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I'd vote Republican if he was a fiscal conservative, social liberal (or just social moderate). Unfortunately, that type of Republican will NEVER be nominated for President. Their nominating process would never allow it.
Exactly. Somehow, that makes me a "liberal," though.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:32 PM   #13
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I think the real problem with the deficit is that there really never was this huge surplus to begin with (yes, there was a surplus for a few years, but that was a symptom, not a result, of what was happening in the economy). The trillion dollar surpluses were arrived at by taking the inflated capital gains revenues from the dot-com boom and sending them out into the future as far as the eye can see. When those revenues - which should never have existed to begin with were it not for the stupidity of a lot of people with a lot of money willing to buy into companies that had no earthly reason to exist - dried up the shortfall was immediate and totaled more than $3 trillion. Add in the recession that came with the downturn and throw in the 9/11 attacks (and resulting expense of fighting the ensuing war) and you get a huge part of where the deficit originates.
WHAT!!???
The surplus was a result of dot-com investments worth 3 trillion?
Please what a load of crap! If that was the case where are those investors now? Financing the iraqi war? The Y2k terror built more of a let down in the economy than investors in dot-coms ever did. The real turn in the economy was in a new policy and agenda. Money being payed out of the pockets of a corporate America to unvalued working people was an opportunity that was seized by the higher taxed republican corporate entity in cutting back the fat. Which indeed happened after Bush was elected and prior to 9/11. The bullshit war he invented at a tragic moment in our history, gave Bush the mask needed to devert american attentions away from his political agenda. Spend and tax relief.
Honestly this tax credit that we received was supposed to revitalize the economy? I couldn't even make my house payment with it. It didn't benefit me, or my neighbors, or anyone that I know in my salary range.
Did it benefit the so called 1%? YES!!!!
Will rolling that tax cut back for that 1% work? YES!!!
Pay as you go worked. And you have nothing to say to that. It's already proven that it did.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HC_Chief
Giuliani, '08!
He's pro-choice. Fuhgettaboutit. And therein lies the problem.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix
Agreed...

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I'd vote Republican if he was a fiscal conservative, social liberal (or just social moderate). Unfortunately, that type of Republican will NEVER be nominated for President. Their nominating process would never allow it.
I also agree that neither has a satisfactory plan to significantly reduce federal spending. But in the age of tit-for-tat voting, will we ever see anyone like that again?
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