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Old 10-28-2004, 11:06 PM  
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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The Carl Peterson Years....1991

3rd in a series….

Plan B additions: Richard Bell, Pete Holohan, Marc Munford, Ricky Shaw, Troy Stradford, Mark Vlasic
Street Free Agent additions: Kimble Anders, Tracy Simien, Eric Everett, Ervin Randle
Trade additions: Ron Stallworth (got hurt and never played)

Plan B losses: Irv Eatman, Rob McGovern, Louis Cooper, Danny Copeland, Alfredo Roberts, Jeff Donaldson, Naz Worthen
Cuts: Greg Meisner, Steve Pelluer
Retired: Mike Webster

Draft (Chiefs drafted 21st in the 1st round and then alternated between the 21, 22, & 23 slots in subsequent rounds due to having the same 1990 record as the Eagles, Bears, and Redskins

1) Harvey Williams (Ted Washington was taken 4 picks later and Brett Favre was taken 12 picks later)

2) Joe Valerio (total bust as a 2nd round pick---never started for us. Aeneas Williams was taken 9 picks later and Mo Lewis was taken 13 picks later)

3) Tim Barnett (had a great rookie year with 41 catches and had a big TD in the ’93 playoff win vs. Steelers, but was never consistent; Ed McCaffrey was taken 6 picks later)

4) No pick

5) Charles Mincy (decent value pick who provided depth in our aging secondary, Mincy ended up starting 27 games in 3 years but didn’t stand out)

6) Darrell Malone, DB (never did anything; Leon Lett was picked 11 spots later)

7) Bernard Ellison, DB (never did anything; another DB, Marty Carter, was picked 18 spots later and was a starter in the league for several years)

8) Tom Dohring, OT (never did anything; Howard Griffith, a productive FB, was taken 18 picks later, and Shawn Jefferson, WR, was taken 22 picks later)

9) Robbie Keen, PK (never did anything; Michael Stonebreaker, a decent LB from Notre Dame, was taken with the next pick by the Bears)

10) Eric Ramsey, DB (best known for secretly taping phone conversations with his coach at Auburn, Pat Dye, which led to Auburn being busted for paying its players; Andrew Glover, a somewhat productive TE, was taken with the next pick by the R aiders

11) Bobby Olive, WR (never did anything; Ted Popson was taken 6 picks later, 1996 Super Bowl MVP Larry Brown was taken 20 picks later, but here’s the kicker: Keenan McCardell was taken 26 picks after we took a WR named Bobby Olive)

12) Ron Shipley, OG (only 5 players were picked after him; none were successful)


1991 Starters:
S. DeBerg, B. Jones, C. Okoye, J. Hayes, J. Alt, D. Szott, T. Grunhard, D. Lutz, R. Baldinger, R. Thomas, T. Barnett
N. Smith, D. Saleaumua, B. Maas, D. Thomas, T. Simien, D. Hackett, C. Martin, K. Ross, A. Lewis, D. Cherry, K. Porter
N. Lowery, B. Barker

Marty Bashers stat of the year:
Pete Holohan had caught at least 49 passes in each of the previous three seasons with the Rams, but only caught 13 passes in 16 games after coming over to the Chiefs in Plan B. Needless to say, 1991 was his only season in KC.


Coming soon…..1992
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Old 10-28-2004, 11:10 PM   #2
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Mark Vlasic baby!! I think he actually started a few games that year?
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Old 10-28-2004, 11:23 PM   #3
KingPriest2 KingPriest2 is offline
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Joe Valerio 15 2 5 2

1994 2 catches 5 yards 2 tds

Joe Valerio 16 1 1 1

1995 1 catch 1 yard 1 td

Joe Valerio is currently a Vice President for Willis, a global risk management consulting firm. He is also the Founder and President of Gridiron Concepts Ltd., a consulting firm that specializes in creating effective teams. During his six-year career with the NFL’s Kansas City Chiefs, Joe started at every position on the offensive line, including tight end. As an offensive lineman he caught an NFL-record four touchdown passes, three from the legendary Joe Montana.

Joe’s active role in the community included speaking to numerous businesses and service organizations, as well as over 100 schools on a variety of topics.

He also established and maintained a charitable foundation, “Joe Valerio Centers on Kids” benefiting a Kansas City area children’s hospital.

In 1995 Joe was nominated for NFL Man of the Year for outstanding community service. In addition to his on field efforts, Joe was a sports anchor for Kansas City’s KMBC Channel 9, and a sports talk show host for KCFX 101.1 FM Radio.

While earning an economics degree from The University of Pennsylvania, Joe received First Team All-Ivy League and First Team All-American honors. He was also voted Team Captain and Team Most Valuable Player by his teammates.

Today, Joe continues his community service in the Philadelphia area as a member of the Executive Committee of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Chapter of the March of Dimes Board of Directors. Joe’s family also acts as an Ambassador Family for the March of Dimes. He is the Vice President of the Ridley Educational Foundation, a non-profit organization that grants funds to teachers for innovative programs at his high school alma mater. He has also served as the Vice President of the Philadelphia Chapter of the National Football League Retired Players Association.


You call that a Total Bust? He caught a NFL record 4 TD passes as a O lineman. Started every position on the line including tight end. And yet he say he never did start for us.
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Old 10-29-2004, 08:13 AM   #4
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPriest2
You call that a Total Bust? He caught a NFL record 4 TD passes as a O lineman. Started every position on the line including tight end. And yet he say he never did start for us.
I'm sure he meant that Joe was never a full-time starter for us, which he wasn't. He started at every position on the offensive line for us, yes. Much like Marcus Spears, who started at a couple of positions, but was never a "starter".
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Old 10-29-2004, 08:15 AM   #5
KingPriest2 KingPriest2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
I'm sure he meant that Joe was never a full-time starter for us, which he wasn't. He started at every position on the offensive line for us, yes. Much like Marcus Spears, who started at a couple of positions, but was never a "starter".

but he still is not a total bust.
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Old 10-29-2004, 08:34 AM   #6
KCTitus KCTitus is offline
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Dammit, Carl...you didnt draft Bret Farve with your first round pick. Of course, neither did any other GM, but dammit! we dont care about that!


signed,
The Usual Suspect.

Be sure to check out my new thread series titled the Lottery Years, where I review the Lottery Numbers that should have been picked instead.
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Old 10-29-2004, 09:20 AM   #7
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPriest2
but he still is not a total bust.
He was a 2nd round pick who started a TOTAL of FOUR GAMES in four years. If you don't think that constitutes a total bust, then we can agree to disagree.

I don't give a damn what kind of accolades he's gotten in the business world or from his charitable work after his football career was over. And I don't care that he caught 4 TD passes as a tackle eligible. He was drafted to be an offensive lineman and he couldn't cut it.
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Old 10-29-2004, 09:42 AM   #8
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCTitus
Be sure to check out my new thread series titled the Lottery Years, where I review the Lottery Numbers that should have been picked instead.
Yeah, that might be a good read, but when you pick lottery numbers, there's no way of reasonably knowing what numbers will be drawn.

On the other hand, a GM should have a bit of a clue as to which players will be successful (barring injury) in the pros, since you have 3 or 4 years of college experience, bowl games, the scouting combine, and personal interviews to go by.
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Old 10-29-2004, 09:47 AM   #9
KingPriest2 KingPriest2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneo69
He was a 2nd round pick who started a TOTAL of FOUR GAMES in four years. If you don't think that constitutes a total bust, then we can agree to disagree.

I don't give a damn what kind of accolades he's gotten in the business world or from his charitable work after his football career was over. And I don't care that he caught 4 TD passes as a tackle eligible. He was drafted to be an offensive lineman and he couldn't cut it.

He was not a bust. He contributed to the team. Atotal bust would not have.
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Old 10-29-2004, 09:48 AM   #10
Skip Towne Skip Towne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneo69
Yeah, that might be a good read, but when you pick lottery numbers, there's no way of reasonably knowing what numbers will be drawn.

On the other hand, a GM should have a bit of a clue as to which players will be successful (barring injury) in the pros, since you have 3 or 4 years of college experience, bowl games, the scouting combine, and personal interviews to go by.
I never thought of that.
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:01 AM   #11
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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Back in '91, Peterson was still looking for a QB to replace an aging DeBerg, and he was still looking for a good WR. Pelluer hadn't panned out at QB, so Vlasic was brought in, and they were still holding out hope that Elkins would develop, so no QB's were taken in the '91 draft.

Stephone Paige was coming off a career year, but he was not a speedster, and he was nearing the end of his career. Naz Worthen and Robb Thomas from the '89 draft, and Fred Jones from the '90 draft weren't developing into top-line WR's, so Peterson decided to throw another dart in the 3rd round and ended up with Tim Barnett.

Peterson/Schottenheimer apparently also wanted a speedy RB to go along with smashmouth RB's Okoye and Word, so they reached for Harvey Williams, the first of a string of questionable 1st round RB picks by the Chiefs in the Peterson era.

Here is what the scouts were saying about Harvey Williams before the '91 draft (as taken from Don Heinrich's '91 Pro Preview):

"He runs a little high. He's going to take some punishment." Joe Woolley, Eagles

"He worries me. High, erect runners sometimes aren't always healthy. He can look great one day, and you don't know who's coming the next day." John Butler, Bills

"He's had his off-the-field problems. He had a good year this year." Jerry Reichow, Vikings

"I don't know how bad Harvey wants it." Reed Johnson, Broncos


If you just look at the impact we got from the players in this draft class, even without considering the guys that we passed on, I think you'd have to say that this was Peterson's worst draft as Chiefs GM.
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCTitus
Dammit, Carl...you didnt draft Bret Farve with your first round pick. Of course, neither did any other GM, but dammit! we dont care about that!


signed,
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Be sure to check out my new thread series titled the Lottery Years, where I review the Lottery Numbers that should have been picked instead.
I like these posts. Keep up the good work. Hope youre saving these as text files so they can populate www.firecalpeterson.com someday.
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:09 AM   #13
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The hindsight exercise continues. Nice breakdown nonetheless. Are you going to take my suggestion and make a stab at objectivity by breaking down the other teams drafts?
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:16 AM   #14
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Quote:
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The hindsight exercise continues. Nice breakdown nonetheless. Are you going to take my suggestion and make a stab at objectivity by breaking down the other teams drafts?
That was my point in previous versions of this thread.

You can do this for every team in the league. Hindsight is always 20/20.
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:43 AM   #15
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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Quote:
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The hindsight exercise continues. Nice breakdown nonetheless. Are you going to take my suggestion and make a stab at objectivity by breaking down the other teams drafts?
If that was a compliment, thanks.

I have decided against doing a comprehensive comparison of Peterson's drafts with other teams' drafts. But thanks for the suggestion. If Lamar Hunt was paying me $40,000 a year to review CP's performance, I would definitely look at other teams' draft performances. But he's not, and I don't really have that much time. Call me lazy. And subjective.

But there are also other reasons I don't want to do this. First, who am I supposed to compare him to? Are there any other GM's that have been with their teams for the past 16 years? I think every other team has fired their GM at least once during that time because the GM was unable to get them to the Super Bowl. Is Bill Polian a fair comparison? Probably not. He's had one team go to four Super Bowls, another team go to the NFC Championship, and another team go to the AFC Championship. So his record looks better than Carl's, but he's been with three teams.

Should I compare the Chiefs drafts to other AFC West teams? The bottom line is that the other three have made it to the Super Bowl since the Chiefs won a playoff game. Maybe that was more due to the fact that the other teams had better coaches, but hey, CP picked his head coaches.

Finally, I'm sure that if you did a comprehensive breakdown of every team's drafts, and you somehow were able to come up with a point system that everybody agreed with, CP would probably finish with more points than teams like Cincy, AZ, SD, etc. But like HTIS says, "Better than bad does not equal good."
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