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Old 12-03-2004, 07:29 PM  
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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The Carl Peterson Years.....1995

7th in a series…..

UFA additions: Jeff Criswell, Rich Gannon, James Hasty, Brian Washington, Martin Bayless, Webster Slaughter, Leroy Thompson
Trade addition: Victor Bailey (for a 1995 2nd rounder)
Street free agents: Tony Richardson, Keith Traylor

Veteran losses: J.J. Birden, Derrick Graham, Jimmie Johnson, Eric Martin, Charles Mincy, David Whitmore, Arnold Ale, Ron Dickerson, Jaime Fields, Tracy Greene, Monty Grow, Lindsay Knapp, Greg Kragen, Jay Taylor, Jon Vaughn, Rob Waldrop, Bracy Walker
Retired: Joe Montana

1995 Draft

1) (pick 31 overall) Trezelle Jenkins (scouting report from Lindy’s 1995 Pro Football Annual called him “a stretch, and not just because he’s 6’7, 322. Not real dedicated and not good on technique, but the skills are there. Moves ok. If KC coaches can reach him, he can turn into a monster blocker. If not, will be a dud.” Bobby Taylor was taken 19 picks later.)

2) traded to Eagles for Victor Bailey, who was active for two games in two years with the Chiefs

3a) Tamarick Vanover (special teams playmaking ability was offset by lack of production on offense and his criminal activity; Antonio Freeman was taken 9 picks later by Green Bay)

3b) Troy Dumas (played in 13 games with no starts in his KC career; Ken Irvin, a decent CB, was taken 12 picks later)

4) Steve Stenstrom (never played for the Chiefs; quote from Lindy’s ’95 Pro Football Annual: “Stenstrom has been compared to Steve Walsh, which means his best days were in college.” Stephen Boyd and John Holecek, who both started at ILB for four years in the league, were taken in the next 10 picks)

5a) Mike Pelton, DT (never played in the NFL; DT Norman Hand was taken 3 picks later)

5b) Jerrott Willard, LB (played in one game for the Chiefs; Travis Hall, a six year starter at DT for Atlanta, was taken 17 picks later by the Falcons)

6a) Bryan Proby, DT (played in 3 games for the Chiefs; Charles Way, a good FB who was a 4 year starter for the Giants before injuries ended his career, was taken 4 picks after Proby)

6b) Tom Barndt (great pick, became 3 year starter at NT/DT, but the Chiefs coaches wasted his first two years in the league trying to turn him into a OT)

7) no pick (the Rams starting OG’s in the ’99 Super Bowl were both drafted in this round, as were solid players Chad Cota, Byron Chamberlain, Chad Eaton, Jason Fisk, and Siegried and Roy-hater Cole Ford)

1995 Starters:
S. Bono, K. Anders, M. Allen, W. Davis, L. Dawson/W. Slaughter, K. Cash, J. Alt, D. Szott, T. Grunhard, W. Shields, R. Siglar
N. Smith, D. Saleaumua, J. Phillips, V. Booker/D. Mickell, G. Jamison, T. Simien, D. Thomas, D. Carter, J. Hasty, M. Collins, B. Washington
L. Elliott, L. Aguiar

Couple notes about ’95…..it’s amazing that we were able to improve from 9-7 in Montana’s last year to 13-3 in Bono’s first year. Besides the downgrade at QB, Lake Dawson and Webster Slaughter barely matched J.J. Birden’s previous production at WR.

On defense, Gunther Cunningham replaced Dave Adolph, who moved to San Diego, and Schottenheimer totally rebuilt the secondary, adding Hasty at CB and Brian Washington at SS, and moving Mark Collins from CB to FS. Chiefs gave up the least points in the league.
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:37 PM   #2
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Victor Bailey lol, wonder who we could've gotten in the 2nd round that year.
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:42 PM   #3
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Wow that was a hell of a bad draft. The funny thing is i remember being optimistic about Victor Bailey for some reason.

Though the FA were solid with Criswell, Gannon, and Hasty. Oddly i was also really excited when we brought Slaughter in but he was disapointment.
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:50 PM   #4
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sure-Oz
Victor Bailey lol, wonder who we could've gotten in the 2nd round that year.
Curtis Martin was taken 17 slots after the 2nd rounder we traded.
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:54 PM   #5
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles Teg
Wow that was a hell of a bad draft. The funny thing is i remember being optimistic about Victor Bailey for some reason.

Though the FA were solid with Criswell, Gannon, and Hasty. Oddly i was also really excited when we brought Slaughter in but he was disapointment.
Yeah, after catching 68 passes with Houston in '94, Slaughter only caught half that many with us in '95.
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneo69
Yeah, after catching 68 passes with Houston in '94, Slaughter only caught half that many with us in '95.
Its been a long time but I seem to remember him having some problems with his hands. He basically was just a player who's numbers were inflated by the Oilers run and shoot offesnse. Though in '94 they had horrible QB's throwing to him.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:02 PM   #7
MonroeChief MonroeChief is offline
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You have pointed out what you feel is the bad draft by the Chiefs. What you barely mention is that they were 13-3. The comment about Joe Montana was worthless, the whole team attitude while Joe was there was "Let Joe do it". The camp that year was grueling, if the Chiefs had have worked as hard Joe's last year they would have been in the Superbowl.

To be totally fair you need to do an analysis for all of the NFL teams for that year. What you will find is that there were some good players taken in the draft (as you pointed out next to the picks you felt were losers) as well as bad players taken, and that is across the board.

The draft couldn't have been that bad, it netted the Chiefs a 13-3 season. The coaching was the lynch pin in the failure that year (and every year that Shottenheimer was at the helm). His mode was very agressive in the regular season, but very conservative in the playoffs. That cost us the whole time he was there. The one time the Chiefs got to the AFC Championship the driving force was Joe Montana (which led to the "Let Joe do it" attitude.)

Basically I'm saying that your report is biased and unfair. I understand your point of view, but you are attacking CP because he drafted and traded for players resulting in a 13-3 record. What's up with that?
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:05 PM   #8
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles Teg
Its been a long time but I seem to remember him having some problems with his hands. He basically was just a player who's numbers were inflated by the Oilers run and shoot offesnse. Though in '94 they had horrible QB's throwing to him.
Well, he also had 65 and 64 catch seasons with the Browns, and they weren't running the run-and-shoot.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:08 PM   #9
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Chiefs gave up the least points in the league.
Ahhh...the good old days.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:14 PM   #10
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonroeChief
You have pointed out what you feel is the bad draft by the Chiefs. What you barely mention is that they were 13-3. The comment about Joe Montana was worthless, the whole team attitude while Joe was there was "Let Joe do it". The camp that year was grueling, if the Chiefs had have worked as hard Joe's last year they would have been in the Superbowl.

To be totally fair you need to do an analysis for all of the NFL teams for that year. What you will find is that there were some good players taken in the draft (as you pointed out next to the picks you felt were losers) as well as bad players taken, and that is across the board.

The draft couldn't have been that bad, it netted the Chiefs a 13-3 season. The coaching was the lynch pin in the failure that year (and every year that Shottenheimer was at the helm). His mode was very agressive in the regular season, but very conservative in the playoffs. That cost us the whole time he was there. The one time the Chiefs got to the AFC Championship the driving force was Joe Montana (which led to the "Let Joe do it" attitude.)

Basically I'm saying that your report is biased and unfair. I understand your point of view, but you are attacking CP because he drafted and traded for players resulting in a 13-3 record. What's up with that?
You're coming in a little late. I've been doing summaries like this for each of Peterson's seasons with the Chiefs, and it just turns out that I'm up to 1995 this week. The 1994 summary was posted about two weeks ago.

I've already gone through the whole "biased and unfair" complaint with other planeteers during previous summaries. If you feel like going back to the start and reading all the summaries, the 1989 season was posted on 10/26/04. If you choose to go back and look, you'll see I'm not criticizing the '95 draft by itself, but rather Peterson's collection of 16 drafts taken as a whole.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:20 PM   #11
MonroeChief MonroeChief is offline
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Originally Posted by shaneo69
You're coming in a little late. I've been doing summaries like this for each of Peterson's seasons with the Chiefs, and it just turns out that I'm up to 1995 this week. The 1994 summary was posted about two weeks ago.

I've already gone through the whole "biased and unfair" complaint with other planeteers during previous summaries. If you feel like going back to the start and reading all the summaries, the 1989 season was posted on 10/26/04. If you choose to go back and look, you'll see I'm not criticizing the '95 draft by itself, but rather Peterson's collection of 16 drafts taken as a whole.
You didn't understand what I said. You are comparing the Chiefs against the Chiefs. Compare them and their drafts against the rest of the league. Compare all teams for the '95 draft and leave the per pick commentary. What you will find is that the Chiefs are on par with the rest of the league.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonroeChief
You didn't understand what I said. You are comparing the Chiefs against the Chiefs. Compare them and their drafts against the rest of the league. Compare all teams for the '95 draft and leave the per pick commentary. What you will find is that the Chiefs are on par with the rest of the league.
When you only draft 3 stars in 16 years you aren't par with the rest of the league. I just can't get over how many people actually defend Carl's draft history.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:52 PM   #13
shaneo69 shaneo69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonroeChief
You didn't understand what I said. You are comparing the Chiefs against the Chiefs. Compare them and their drafts against the rest of the league. Compare all teams for the '95 draft and leave the per pick commentary. What you will find is that the Chiefs are on par with the rest of the league.
Like I've told others who have requested similar research.....I don't care about other teams, and I definitely don't have the time to do it. If Lamar wants to pay me $40k to objectively review Carl's results against all other teams during the past 16 years, then I'd be glad to put in the effort. Or if you feel like doing it for objectivity's sake, then be my guest.

Another thing I've already mentioned to others like you is that I'm sure if you were able to come up with some universally accepted ranking of each teams' drafts, Carl would finish ahead of teams like the Bengals, Cardinals, and possibly a few others. But to quote another planeteer, better than bad does not equal good.

Finally, if you want to be completely objective in comparing Carl with his peers, please let me know of another GM who's been with the same team for the past 16 years, and I'd be glad to compare them side by side. Unfortunately, other GM's who don't get their team to the Super Bowl get fired long before they've been with that team for 16 years.
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Old 12-03-2004, 09:13 PM   #14
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Old 12-03-2004, 09:30 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by BigChiefFan
When you only draft 3 stars in 16 years you aren't par with the rest of the league. I just can't get over how many people actually defend Carl's draft history.
Try looking at the W-L record for the past 16 years, that might give you a clue. Compare that W-L record for the previous 16 years. (and with the same GM - Steadman)
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