Maureen Dowd, and the ignorance of the left in fighting terorism.

MarcBulger · 02-01-2005, 08:31 AM

ORTURE: Our tactics degrade everyone, not just the victim
By Maureen Dowd
The New York Times
02/01/2005
Advertisement

A former Army sergeant describes how sex was used against Muslim prisoners.

Editor's Note: The following column contains graphic witness accounts of psycho-sexual abuse of prisoners at the U.S. Naval Station at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Some readers may prefer to avoid this material.

WASHINGTON - By the time House Republicans were finished with him, Bill Clinton must have thought of a thong as a torture device.

For the Bush administration, it actually is.

A former U.S. Army sergeant who worked as an Arabic interpreter at Gitmo has written a book pulling back the veil on the astounding ways that female interrogators used a toxic combination of sex and religion to try to break Muslim detainees at the U.S. prison camp in Cuba. It's not merely disgusting. It's beyond belief.

"I have really struggled with this because the detainees, their families and much of the world will think this is a religious war based on some of the techniques used, even though it is not the case," the former sergeant, Erik R. Saar, 29, told The Associated Press. The AP got a manuscript of his book, deemed classified pending a Pentagon review.

What good is it for President George W. Bush to speak respectfully of Islam and claim Iraq is not a religious war if the Pentagon denigrates Islamic law - allowing its female interrogators to try to make Muslim men talk in late-night sessions featuring sexual touching, displays of fake menstrual blood, and parading in miniskirt, tight T-shirt, bra and thong underwear?

Saar writes about what he calls "disturbing" practices during his time in Gitmo from December 2002 to June 2003, including this anecdote related by Paisley Dodds, an AP reporter:

A female military interrogator who wanted to turn up the heat on a 21-year-old Saudi detainee who allegedly had taken flying lessons in Arizona before Sept. 11, 2001, removed her uniform top to expose a snug T-shirt. She began belittling the prisoner - who was praying with his eyes closed - as she touched her breasts, rubbed them against the Saudi's back and commented on his apparent arousal.

After the prisoner spat in her face, she "left the room to ask a Muslim linguist how she could break the prisoner's reliance on God," Dodds reported. The linguist suggested she "tell the detainee that she was menstruating, touch him, and then make sure to turn off the water in his cell so he couldn't wash."

Dodds quotes from Sarr's manuscript, explaining: "The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," Saar recounted, with the interrogator using red ink in the deception.

When the interrogator finished, the prisoner "began to cry like a baby," the author wrote, adding that the interrogator's parting shot was: "Have a fun night in your cell without any water to clean yourself."

A female civilian contractor kept her "uniform" - a thong and miniskirt - on the back of the door of an interrogation room, the author says.

Who are these women? Who allows this to happen? Why don't the officers who allow it get into trouble? Why do Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz still have their jobs?

The military did not deny the specifics but said the prisoners were treated "humanely" and in a way consistent "with legal obligations prohibiting torture." However the Bush White House is redefining torture these days, the point is this: Such behavior degrades the women who are doing it, the men they are doing it to and the country they are doing it for.

There's nothing wrong with trying to squeeze information out of detainees. But isn't it simply more effective to throw them in isolation and try to build some sort of relationship?

I doubt that the thong tease works as well on inmates at Gitmo as it did on Bill Clinton in the Oval Office.

Copyright The New York Times

I see a long row of Conservative Presidents in our future.

Baby Lee · 02-01-2005, 08:37 AM

This is going nowhere. Nobody cares that these tactics are being used, and most applaud it's creativity.

I guaran-damn-tee that Dowd would be giggling her ass off is some fundamentalist group of abortion clinic bombers were infiltrated by these same tactics.

Once again, it's not about principle, but personalities.

SBK · 02-01-2005, 08:39 AM

Where were her articles about Clinton, the actual president, sexually abusing women?

homey · 02-01-2005, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Nobody cares that these tactics are being used, and most applaud it's creativity.

Man, you're serious too.

**KCFalcon59** · 02-01-2005, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortbuskid

Where were her articles about Clinton, the actual president, sexually abusing women?

She was jealous.

Baby Lee · 02-01-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homey

Man, you're serious too.

100% - if stopping terrorist plans means we have to be 'disrespectful' so ****ing what? "Ohhh, I have been duped into feeling shame." Boo-****ing-hoo. I see this as no different than if a comic book geek was planning a terrorist act, and the interrogators mocked up a copy of his mint Spiderman issue 1 and burned it in front of him.

Baby Lee · 02-01-2005, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCFalcon59

She was jealous.

Dowd so wants big Bill's Dicken's Cider.

SBK · 02-01-2005, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

100% - if stopping terrorist plans means we have to be 'disrespectful' so ****ing what? "Ohhh, I have been duped into feeling shame." Boo-****ing-hoo. I see this as no different than if a comic book geek was planning a terrorist act, and the interrogators mocked up a copy of his mint Spiderman issue 1 and burned it in front of him.

No doubt, we make them feel shame, if they catch us they take our head away.

Cochise · 02-01-2005, 08:51 AM

I wish I got 'mistreated' like that.

Anyone want to speculate on what these Islamofacist Raiders-bags would be doing to our guys to try to get information out of them? It sure as hell wouldn't be lap dances.

Radar Chief · 02-01-2005, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

"Ohhh, I have been duped into feeling shame." Boo-****ing-hoo.

Exactly. Does anyone actually have a problem with this that ISN’T inspired by some partisan political rhetoric?

RINGLEADER · 02-01-2005, 09:16 AM

The more you allow judges to dictate what our armed forces are doing overseas the less effective they become. I read a story a couple days back about how the tribunals investigating Abu Gharib instituted a bunch of new procedures that included not allowing us to detain suspected terrorists for more than three days unless they reveal information that shows they are part of a group or an attack. Consequently it is now common knowledge amongst the detainees that if you keep your mouth shut for three days they will cut you loose.

And don't even get me started on the judges declaring that enemy combatants captured fighting troops in another country and being held at a military base have the same constitutional rights as Americans.

MarcBulger · 02-02-2005, 11:08 AM

I am waiting for a responce from MEME she is afterall my favorite LIB>

DenverChief · 02-02-2005, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

And don't even get me started on the judges declaring that enemy combatants captured fighting troops in another country and being held at a military base have the same constitutional rights as Americans.

the same basic legal rights?

|Zach| · 02-02-2005, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortbuskid

No doubt, we make them feel shame, if they catch us they take our head away.

So why not blur the line between how we do things and how they do things...

Shining city on a hill, right?

DanT · 02-02-2005, 12:11 PM

That's truly pathetic, a government employee rubbing her titties up against a man in order to try and break his faith in God.

02-01-2005, 08:31 AM
MarcBulger Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Casino cash: $2644	Maureen Dowd, and the ignorance of the left in fighting terorism. ORTURE: Our tactics degrade everyone, not just the victim By Maureen Dowd The New York Times 02/01/2005 Advertisement A former Army sergeant describes how sex was used against Muslim prisoners. Editor's Note: The following column contains graphic witness accounts of psycho-sexual abuse of prisoners at the U.S. Naval Station at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Some readers may prefer to avoid this material. WASHINGTON - By the time House Republicans were finished with him, Bill Clinton must have thought of a thong as a torture device. For the Bush administration, it actually is. A former U.S. Army sergeant who worked as an Arabic interpreter at Gitmo has written a book pulling back the veil on the astounding ways that female interrogators used a toxic combination of sex and religion to try to break Muslim detainees at the U.S. prison camp in Cuba. It's not merely disgusting. It's beyond belief. "I have really struggled with this because the detainees, their families and much of the world will think this is a religious war based on some of the techniques used, even though it is not the case," the former sergeant, Erik R. Saar, 29, told The Associated Press. The AP got a manuscript of his book, deemed classified pending a Pentagon review. What good is it for President George W. Bush to speak respectfully of Islam and claim Iraq is not a religious war if the Pentagon denigrates Islamic law - allowing its female interrogators to try to make Muslim men talk in late-night sessions featuring sexual touching, displays of fake menstrual blood, and parading in miniskirt, tight T-shirt, bra and thong underwear? Saar writes about what he calls "disturbing" practices during his time in Gitmo from December 2002 to June 2003, including this anecdote related by Paisley Dodds, an AP reporter: A female military interrogator who wanted to turn up the heat on a 21-year-old Saudi detainee who allegedly had taken flying lessons in Arizona before Sept. 11, 2001, removed her uniform top to expose a snug T-shirt. She began belittling the prisoner - who was praying with his eyes closed - as she touched her breasts, rubbed them against the Saudi's back and commented on his apparent arousal. After the prisoner spat in her face, she "left the room to ask a Muslim linguist how she could break the prisoner's reliance on God," Dodds reported. The linguist suggested she "tell the detainee that she was menstruating, touch him, and then make sure to turn off the water in his cell so he couldn't wash." Dodds quotes from Sarr's manuscript, explaining: "The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," Saar recounted, with the interrogator using red ink in the deception. When the interrogator finished, the prisoner "began to cry like a baby," the author wrote, adding that the interrogator's parting shot was: "Have a fun night in your cell without any water to clean yourself." A female civilian contractor kept her "uniform" - a thong and miniskirt - on the back of the door of an interrogation room, the author says. Who are these women? Who allows this to happen? Why don't the officers who allow it get into trouble? Why do Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz still have their jobs? The military did not deny the specifics but said the prisoners were treated "humanely" and in a way consistent "with legal obligations prohibiting torture." However the Bush White House is redefining torture these days, the point is this: Such behavior degrades the women who are doing it, the men they are doing it to and the country they are doing it for. There's nothing wrong with trying to squeeze information out of detainees. But isn't it simply more effective to throw them in isolation and try to build some sort of relationship? I doubt that the thong tease works as well on inmates at Gitmo as it did on Bill Clinton in the Oval Office. Copyright The New York Times I see a long row of Conservative Presidents in our future.
Posts: 903

02-01-2005, 08:37 AM	#2
Baby Lee Cake Boss!! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: 456 Lick My Butthole Lane Casino cash: $137644	This is going nowhere. Nobody cares that these tactics are being used, and most applaud it's creativity. I guaran-damn-tee that Dowd would be giggling her ass off is some fundamentalist group of abortion clinic bombers were infiltrated by these same tactics. Once again, it's not about principle, but personalities.
Posts: 40,344

02-01-2005, 08:39 AM	#3
SBK Curry is the pick??? Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Casino cash: $22487	Where were her articles about Clinton, the actual president, sexually abusing women?
Posts: 8,153

02-01-2005, 08:51 AM	#9
Cochise MVP Join Date: May 2003 Location: Florida Casino cash: $79952344	I wish I got 'mistreated' like that. Anyone want to speculate on what these Islamofacist Raiders-bags would be doing to our guys to try to get information out of them? It sure as hell wouldn't be lap dances.
Posts: 40,796

02-01-2005, 09:16 AM	#11
RINGLEADER RING****ER Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Confusion, USA Casino cash: $335044	The more you allow judges to dictate what our armed forces are doing overseas the less effective they become. I read a story a couple days back about how the tribunals investigating Abu Gharib instituted a bunch of new procedures that included not allowing us to detain suspected terrorists for more than three days unless they reveal information that shows they are part of a group or an attack. Consequently it is now common knowledge amongst the detainees that if you keep your mouth shut for three days they will cut you loose. And don't even get me started on the judges declaring that enemy combatants captured fighting troops in another country and being held at a military base have the same constitutional rights as Americans.
Posts: 22,906

02-02-2005, 11:08 AM	#12
MarcBulger Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Casino cash: $2644	I am waiting for a responce from MEME she is afterall my favorite LIB>
Posts: 903

02-02-2005, 12:11 PM	#15
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $24599	That's truly pathetic, a government employee rubbing her titties up against a man in order to try and break his faith in God.
Posts: 3,051

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