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Old 03-06-2005, 05:25 PM  
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
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JAZ: "Privatization Of Soc. Security Was One Of the Best Things [Bush] Ever Proposed"

"There aren't a lot of things that Bush has said or done that I got excited about, but the privitization of SS was one of the best things he ever proposed. Too bad it was the 2nd thing he ignored after he came into office, after terrorism." - jAZ, circa May, 2004

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...1&postcount=17

Still trying to figure out what changed Jaz's opinion...I guess Bush's victory in November must have had something to do with it. If you read the link above Jaz was even promoting the fact that O'Neill and Greenspan were saying it would cost a trillion dollars and Jaz takes Bush to task for not acting on it.
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Old 03-06-2005, 05:39 PM   #2
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Bush doesn't mean what he says he means...

When Bush says "add on" to SS, he really means partly in place of. If he had been more clear from the beginning, I wouldn't have been mislead.

But you fully understood this though, didn't you? It's just another deliberate attempt to butcher what someone says and cram it into the box you want it to fit in, so that you can point an scream about it.
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Old 03-06-2005, 05:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
Bush doesn't mean what he says he means...

When Bush says "add on" to SS, he really means partly in place of. If he had been more clear from the beginning, I wouldn't have been mislead.

But you fully understood this though, didn't you? It's just another deliberate attempt to butcher what someone says and cram it into the box you want it to fit in, so that you can point an scream about it.



So what you meant to say was: "When I said I was for BUSH'S privatization plan, I really thought what he was proposing was something different than what he said, so when I said that I supported it before, it was only because I wasn't listening."?

The fact is that Bush's plan for social security has pretty much always been to take a portion of social security and put it into private accounts, as the link you posted in the link I referenced above illustrates.

The fact is, Jaz, that you chastised Bush for not acting on O'Neill and Greenspan's recommendations which were to put private accounts in place specifically to REPLACE a portion of future social security liabilities. And you cited this fact when you complained about Bush not enacting THAT plan. This is the pertinent paragraph from YOUR link:

Quote:
Mr. O'Neill also pushed the president to set aside $1 trillion of the projected surpluses to fund one of Mr. Bush's big ideas during the campaign: the privatization of Social Security. Allowing people to invest Social Security contributions into private retirement accounts would reduce the government's future retirement liabilities, but the government would need to cover obligations to existing retirees without the money coming in from existing workers.
Heck, Jaz, I just went back to your original post and even YOU cited the above paragraph. So maybe you can take another crack at explaining why you're suddenly singing a different tune.

Last edited by RINGLEADER; 03-06-2005 at 05:54 PM..
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Old 03-06-2005, 05:57 PM   #4
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I guess I will file this thread under the "petty bickering children" section.
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachKC
I guess I will file this thread under the "petty bickering children" section.

That's too bad. I'd really like to understand why one of the few areas that Jaz and I agreed on last year has suddenly become something that he's against. The only way the problem is going to get resolved is if conservatives and liberals work together and come to a consensus on the matter.

I'd be all for higher tax thresholds in the program. Means test the benefits. Address the COLAs. Do all the things that conservatives normally don't approve of...if it means putting a program in place that is voluntary and allows everyone in it to earn a better return on the money they're contributing.

I'd even be for giving up on all the contributions I've made to date because, in reality, I'm not going to come close to recouping them anyway. My last social security statement told me so.

The thing that is really confusing is how strongly the Dems oppose a program that Bush has always said will be VOLUNTARY. I think it's because they know that the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans who will be eligible will indeed opt out of the present system...and if that's the case then aren't those opposing reforms wrong in their opposition?
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:10 PM   #6
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jAZ;

"I was for the Bush SS overhaul......before I was against it."



Sound familiar?
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:11 PM   #7
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER
"When I said I was for BUSH'S privatization plan, I really thought what he was proposing was something different than what he said, so when I said that I supported it before, it was only because I wasn't listening."?

The fact is that Bush's plan for social security has pretty much always been to take a portion of social security and put it into private accounts, as the link you posted in the link I referenced above illustrates.

The fact is, Jaz, that you chastised Bush for not acting on O'Neill and Greenspan's recommendations which were to put private accounts in place specifically to REPLACE a portion of future social security liabilities. And you cited this fact when you complained about Bush not enacting THAT plan. This is the pertinent paragraph from YOUR link:



Heck, Jaz, I just went back to your original post and even YOU cited the above paragraph. So maybe you can take another crack at explaining why you're suddenly singing a different tune.
We all have a far greater understanding of what the Republicans are proposing today, than Bush ever made clear in his first term. Whether it was Bush keeping quite about his vision or my mis-impression of that vision... the fact is, that what I thought I was endorsing isn't what is proposed today.

Though it appears Bush is open to just exactly what I support... if he can't get any other support.

I also like the fact that Bush is trying to convince the world that his plan is just an "add-on". I guess you missed my reference to the latest controversy of political spin.
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Dog
jAZ;

"I was for the Bush SS overhaul......before I was against it."



Sound familiar?
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Old 03-06-2005, 07:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER
"There aren't a lot of things that Bush has said or done that I got excited about, but the privitization of SS was one of the best things he ever proposed. Too bad it was the 2nd thing he ignored after he came into office, after terrorism." - jAZ, circa May, 2004

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...1&postcount=17

Still trying to figure out what changed Jaz's opinion...I guess Bush's victory in November must have had something to do with it. If you read the link above Jaz was even promoting the fact that O'Neill and Greenspan were saying it would cost a trillion dollars and Jaz takes Bush to task for not acting on it.
RL, please, oh please, if I could just ask one favor.

If I ever do a complete 180 on a topic without explaining my justification.....please oh please pm me and ask me what I meant b4 pointing it out publicly and making me look like a fool.

You owe it to me knowing I'm a devoted Chief fan.
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Old 03-06-2005, 07:38 PM   #10
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Old 03-06-2005, 07:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla
Hey, look, you're wrong; I caught you! Lookie at me calling you out! I'll pretend I just want to understand while I try to rub your nose in it. I'm a big man!
Hey, look, I'm an elitist ass; I'm too intelligent to actually participate in these debates! I'll just stand over here and point fingers. I'm a big man!






already ducking in anticipation of the next post..
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Old 03-06-2005, 07:51 PM   #12
KCWolfman KCWolfman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla
Hey, look, you're wrong; I caught you! Lookie at me calling you out! I'll pretend I just want to understand while I try to rub your nose in it. I'm a big man!
I don't think it is a matter of being wrong as it is a matter of being a hypocrite - and one that deserves an explanation. Especially from someone making thread after thread at how evil privatization is.

But paint it any color you want to feel better.
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Old 03-06-2005, 08:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
We all have a far greater understanding of what the Republicans are proposing today,.


Yea spin that jaz, he just pulled your covers like a MO. It's a shame when someone's hatred grows beyond their ability to address things with level head.

I hate Bush too but my positions have never changed.
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Old 03-06-2005, 08:25 PM   #14
|Zach| |Zach| is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCWolfman
I don't think it is a matter of being wrong as it is a matter of being a hypocrite - and one that deserves an explanation. Especially from someone making thread after thread at how evil privatization is.

But paint it any color you want to feel better.
I don't think Pitt thinks Jaz is not a hypocrite or not wrong but the idea that RL made this thread so that Jaz could "explain himself" is laughable. Jaz is spinning himseld silly here he has nowhere to stand. If you are going to rub someone's nose in it then thats not a problem. It happens alot around here. But if its going to happen then own it.
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Old 03-06-2005, 08:32 PM   #15
KCWolfman KCWolfman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachKC
I don't think Pitt thinks Jaz is not a hypocrite or not wrong but the idea that RL made this thread is so that Jaz could "explain himself" is laughable. Jaz is spinning himseld silly here he has nowhere to stand. If you are going to rub someone's nose in it then thats not a problem. It happens alot around here. But if its going to happen then own it.
RL obviously is acting innocent, but it is a slam.

Of course, jAZ could have just 'fessed up and admitted it was the author he decrys and not the message, but then he would have been ridiculed anyway.

You do have a point.
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