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Old 03-14-2005, 01:16 PM  
Donger Donger is offline
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uh-oh 800k ANTI-Syrian demonstrators in Beruit...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ebanon_syria_6

Fair and balanced, as always.

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators chanted "Freedom, sovereignty, independence," and waved a sea of Lebanese flags in Beirut on Monday, the biggest anti-Syrian protest yet in the opposition's duel of street rallies with supporters of the Damascus-backed government.

Crowds of Druse, Christians and Sunni Muslims flooded Martyrs' Square and spilled over into nearby streets responding to an opposition call to turn out for the removal of Syrian troops from Lebanon.

"We are coming to liberate our country. We are coming to demand the truth," said Fatma Trad, a veiled Sunni Muslim woman who traveled from the remote region of Dinniyeh in northern Lebanon to take part.

The assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri exactly one month ago sparked the series of protests against Syria, the dominant power in Lebanon.

The throngs fell silent at 12:55 p.m. the exact time Hariri was killed four weeks ago by a huge bomb in Beirut. The silence was broken only by church bells tolling and the flutter of flags.

Later, thousands of red and white balloons were released above the teeming crowd, many of whom wore scarves in the same colors that have come to symbolize the country's anti-Syrian movement in what the U.S. State Department has dubbed the "Cedar Revolution." Brass bands playing patriotic and national folk songs and Lebanon's national anthem were regularly drowned out by deafening chants from the crowd.

Monday's protest easily surpassed a pro-government rally of hundreds of thousands of people last week by the Shiite Muslim militant group Hezbollah. That show of strength forced the opposition to try to regain its momentum.

While there were no official estimates of the size of the crowd, Lebanon's leading LBC TV station and some police officers estimated it at about 1 million people. The officers refused to speak publicly because it was an opposition rally. An Associated Press estimate by reporters on the scene put the number at much higher than the approximately 500,000 who attended the March 8 pro-Syrian rally.

Syria's military withdrawal continued Monday, with intelligence agents closing two offices in the northern towns of Amyoun and Deir Ammar, on the coastal road between the port of Tripoli and the Syrian border. Intelligence agents also dismantled two checkpoints in the Akkar area. About 50 intelligence agents in all departed for unknown destinations, although it was believed to be northern Syria.

Most intelligence offices, the widely resented arm through which Syria has controlled many aspects of Lebanese life, remained in northern and central Lebanon after Syrian troops moved east, closer to the Syrian border. Last week, intelligence officers left the central towns of Aley and Bhamdoun and headed to Syrian-controlled areas of eastern Lebanon. The redeployment is the first stage of what Damascus says will be a full withdrawal, although it has not given a timetable.

The opposition is demanding a full Syrian withdrawal, the resignations of Lebanese security chiefs and an international investigation into Hariri's Feb. 14 assassination.

"We will accept nothing short of an international inquiry as our way to the truth," said Hariri's sister, Bahiya, a lawmaker, repeating demands for the resignation of Lebanese security chiefs and refusing any possible postponement of parliamentary elections.

Many in the crowd were also particularly offended by pro-Syrian President Emile Lahoud's reinstatement last week of Prime Minister Omar Karami, who was forced to resign on Feb. 28 by a giant opposition protest.

"They are challenging us, and we are here to show them that we will not accept," said banker Farid Samaha as he joined the demonstration. "We are determined to liberate our country and we will not stop."

A line of people in the square carried a 100-yard-long white-and-red Lebanese flag with the distinct green cedar tree in the middle, shaking it up and down and shouting, "Syria out."

Protesters chanted "Truth, freedom, national unity!" or "We want only the Lebanese army in Lebanon!"

"Syria out, no half measures," read a banner, borrowing from President Bush (news - web sites)'s description of Damascus' gradual withdrawal from this country of 3.5 million.



In addition to packing Martyrs' Square, thousands of other protesters spilled into the nearby Riad Solh Square and outlying streets.

It came in the wake of U.N. envoy Terje Roed-Larsen's string of meetings with Syrian President Bashar Assad and top Lebanese government and opposition officials to ensure the implementation of a U.N. Security Council resolution demanding Syria's withdrawal.

Roed-Larsen indicated he had extracted further details of a pullout timetable from Assad during their meeting Saturday and would take those details back to U.N. headquarters this week.

Syrian Cabinet minister Bouthaina Shaaban told CNN a "very fast timetable for withdrawal" was expected, with completion probable ahead of Lebanese parliamentary elections as Bush has demanded. Election dates have not yet been set, but the current parliament's mandate expires May 31.

A senior Lebanese army officer said Sunday that 4,000 Syrian soldiers more than a quarter of those serving in Lebanon just a week ago have been brought back to Syria, but he said a date for a complete withdrawal won't be set until an April 7 meeting of Syrian and Lebanese officers.

It also requires a Lebanese government to be in place to negotiate with Syria on a full troop withdrawal, since Karami is leading a caretaker government and cannot negotiate foreign agreements. A final agreement on a Syrian withdrawal will have to wait for a Cabinet to be formed and approved by Parliament.

The political process is deadlocked, with the opposition refusing to join any government before their demands are met, and Karami insisting on a "national unity" government. Some opposition members accuse Karami of stalling to kill the chances of holding an election they believe the pro-Syrian camp, which has a majority in the legislature, will lose.

Karami is expected to begin consultations Tuesday on forming a Cabinet.

In Paris, meanwhile, former Lebanese Prime Minister Gen. Michel Aoun said Monday he will return from exile in coming weeks, with plans to help foster national reconciliation as Lebanon awaits parliamentary elections.

"My return ... will take place in the next weeks," said the former commander of the Lebanese army who fled the country in 1990.

He said he would be going back to Lebanon with Maj. Gen. Edgar Maalouf and Brig. Gen. Issam Abu Jamra, who were part of a government headed by Aoun that took over in 1988 at the end of President Amin Gemayel's term.

About 100,000 pro-Syrian demonstrators turned out Sunday in another Hezbollah-organized protest in the southern town of Nabatiyeh.

Syria has been Lebanon's main power broker for nearly three decades since sending troops to its smaller neighbor in 1976 to help quell what was then a year-old civil war. The troops, at times numbering more than 35,000, stayed after the war ended in 1990.
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Old 03-14-2005, 01:31 PM   #2
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I like it when you and meme go around and around with "My demonstration is bigger then yours" threads.
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Old 03-14-2005, 01:42 PM   #3
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Old 03-14-2005, 01:46 PM   #4
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I read a yahoo story yesterday where the Pro Syrian demonstration last week the crowd was bussed in Syrians and people rounded up. Almost no Lebanese.
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Old 03-14-2005, 01:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ebanon_syria_6

About 100,000 pro-Syrian demonstrators turned out Sunday in another Hezbollah-organized protest in the southern town of Nabatiyeh.

Syria has been Lebanon's main power broker for nearly three decades since sending troops to its smaller neighbor in 1976 to help quell what was then a year-old civil war. The troops, at times numbering more than 35,000, stayed after the war ended in 1990.

Now they're reporting that it is closer to 1.5 million. And they didn't even need to bus any Syrians in to get their numbers up.

Still curious as to why D-Nise pimps the terrorist-sponsored rally that was without female support and not a peep about this one today:










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Old 03-14-2005, 01:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd
I like it when you and meme go around and around with "My demonstration is bigger then yours" threads.
Perhaps my memory is faulty, but I believe this is the first of its kind. At least for me.
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Old 03-14-2005, 01:48 PM   #7
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Let's just start the carpet-bombing of Damascus now.
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Old 03-14-2005, 01:50 PM   #8
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Just as an aside, I was talking to an Israeli friend and asked him why Syria is so reticent about leaving Lebanon. He explained that, beyond the geographical significance of the country, almost all of the wealth that is repatrioted back into Syria comes from Lebanon. He explained that the Syrian economy is still pretty much based on barter and trade and is completely backwards. He seemed to think that if Syria actually was forced from Lebanon the Assad government would fail. He was hopeful and he's a guy who's been telling me for months that events like the one pictured above would never happen.
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Old 03-14-2005, 01:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HC_Chief
Let's just start the carpet-bombing of Damascus now.
You know, I'm a pretty staunch Bush supporter, but one of the issues I've had with him has been Iraq. But, if one objectively looks at what has happened since Iraq (Libya, Saudi Arabia sort of, Lebanon, et al), I think one would have to be rather hard-pressed to call Iraq a negative.
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Old 03-14-2005, 02:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger
You know, I'm a pretty staunch Bush supporter, but one of the issues I've had with him has been Iraq. But, if one objectively looks at what has happened since Iraq (Libya, Saudi Arabia sort of, Lebanon, et al), I think one would have to be rather hard-pressed to call Iraq a negative.
You would hate me as president... Syria would already have been invaded by now. I wouldn't have dicked around in Iraq. We bypassed far too much of the country, and dismantled the military - sending armed, trained, unemplyed men home to squallor. I would have brought hammer strikes down in the "Sunni Triangle", then employed Saddam's own heavy-handed forces to ensure security. American contractors such as Blackwarter would not have liked it - as I would have basically given their contracts to internal agencies, but so be it - Iraq would be policing itself from day-one (post surrender).

Syria is going to get bombed... I have no doubts. They will **** this whole situation up; they'll either continue to thumb their nose at the UN (which, surprisingly, will do nothing), start a "civil war" in Lebanon (how civil can it be when they're the only ones w/ guns?), or they'll allow Hezbollah to strike Israeli targets (possibly all three). The US must react swiftly to any/all of those actions. If Lebanon is allowed to fall back into anarchy, democratization of the ME will surely crumble.
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Old 03-14-2005, 02:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER
Just as an aside, I was talking to an Israeli friend and asked him why Syria is so reticent about leaving Lebanon. He explained that, beyond the geographical significance of the country, almost all of the wealth that is repatrioted back into Syria comes from Lebanon. He explained that the Syrian economy is still pretty much based on barter and trade and is completely backwards. He seemed to think that if Syria actually was forced from Lebanon the Assad government would fail. He was hopeful and he's a guy who's been telling me for months that events like the one pictured above would never happen.
Syria is definitely very backwards. It needs to take a page out of Jordan's book and get things going in the right direction, but it never seems to be able to get past bitterness and bile over the Golan Heights, etc.
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Old 03-14-2005, 02:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HC_Chief
You would hate me as president... Syria would already have been invaded by now.
I would be making sure all these nutjob islamic heads of state like Assad, along with his counterpart Il, would he having unfortunate, life-ending accidents.
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Old 03-14-2005, 02:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger
You know, I'm a pretty staunch Bush supporter, but one of the issues I've had with him has been Iraq. But, if one objectively looks at what has happened since Iraq (Libya, Saudi Arabia sort of, Lebanon, et al), I think one would have to be rather hard-pressed to call Iraq a negative.
if the democracy movement continues, then Iraq could turn out to be a positive. I continue to puke every time I see what we're budgeting for it, however. You'd think the oil revenues would help just a wee bit on that front.

Remove Libya from your list, however. It was moving solidly towards the West back in the late 90s. I don't think Iraq significantly altered anything that wasn't happening anyway. Might have moved things along a bit faster, at most.
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Old 03-14-2005, 02:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix
You'd think the oil revenues would help just a wee bit on that front.
Production is still down. Infrastructure costs to repair and maintain, and then SECURE the fields, pumps, lines, and shipping routes currently outweigh the profits.

Besides, it's not our oil. I wish we would take it in payment... as funding for our effort to free Iraq of despotic madmen and terrorist shitbags, but nooooooo, then all of the "Iraq war was all about the oil!" nutjobs would be squeeling like the little piggies they are (as if they aren't squeeling already).
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Old 03-14-2005, 02:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix
if the democracy movement continues, then Iraq could turn out to be a positive. I continue to puke every time I see what we're budgeting for it, however. You'd think the oil revenues would help just a wee bit on that front.

Remove Libya from your list, however. It was moving solidly towards the West back in the late 90s. I don't think Iraq significantly altered anything that wasn't happening anyway. Might have moved things along a bit faster, at most.
Yes, but it just happened to very rapidly turn the corner after we went into Iraq, didn't they? It may be a legend but I think that the Italian PM is quoted as saying the Khaddafi said something along the lines of, "I didn't want to end up like Hussein," or words to that effect.
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