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Old 03-21-2005, 12:40 AM  
the Talking Can the Talking Can is offline
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Damn, Bush caught lying again...

Yeah, I know, it ain't as important as Howard Dean.and we're all used to the lies, but you'd think at some point some republican would actually ask what the **** is going on....

not drudge, but read anyway

U.S. Misled Allies About Nuclear Export
North Korea Sent Material To Pakistan, Not to Libya

By Dafna Linzer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, March 20, 2005; Page A01

In an effort to increase pressure on North Korea, the Bush administration told its Asian allies in briefings earlier this year that Pyongyang had exported nuclear material to Libya. That was a significant new charge, the first allegation that North Korea was helping to create a new nuclear weapons state.

But that is not what U.S. intelligence reported, according to two officials with detailed knowledge of the transaction. North Korea, according to the intelligence, had supplied uranium hexafluoride -- which can be enriched to weapons-grade uranium -- to Pakistan. It was Pakistan, a key U.S. ally with its own nuclear arsenal, that sold the material to Libya. The U.S. government had no evidence, the officials said, that North Korea knew of the second transaction.

Pakistan's role as both the buyer and the seller was concealed to cover up the part played by Washington's partner in the hunt for al Qaeda leaders, according to the officials, who discussed the issue on the condition of anonymity. In addition, a North Korea-Pakistan transfer would not have been news to the U.S. allies, which have known of such transfers for years and viewed them as a business matter between sovereign states.

The Bush administration's approach, intended to isolate North Korea, instead left allies increasingly doubtful as they began to learn that the briefings omitted essential details about the transaction, U.S. officials and foreign diplomats said in interviews. North Korea responded to public reports last month about the briefings by withdrawing from talks with its neighbors and the United States.

In an effort to repair the damage, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is traveling through East Asia this weekend trying to get the six-nation talks back on track. The impasse was expected to dominate talks today in Seoul and then Beijing, which wields the greatest influence with North Korea.

The new details follow a string of controversies concerning the Bush administration's use of intelligence on weapons of mass destruction. In the run-up to the Iraq invasion in March 2003, the White House offered a public case against Iraq that concealed dissent on nearly every element of intelligence and included interpretations unsupported by the evidence.

A presidential commission studying U.S. intelligence is reviewing the case, as well as judgments on Iran and North Korea. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence also is reviewing evidence on nuclear, chemical and biological programs suspected in Iran and North Korea.

The United States briefed allies on North Korea in late January and early February. Shortly afterward, administration officials, speaking to The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity, said North Korea had sold uranium hexafluoride to Libya. The officials said the briefing was arranged to share the information with China, South Korea and Japan ahead of a new round of hoped-for negotiations on North Korea's nuclear program.

But in recent days, two other U.S. officials said the briefings were hastily arranged after China and South Korea indicated they were considering bolting from six-party talks on North Korea. The talks have been seen as largely ineffectual, but the Bush administration, which refuses to meet bilaterally with Pyongyang, insists they are critical to curbing North Korea's nuclear program.

The White House declined to offer an official to comment by name about the new details concerning Pakistan. A prepared response attributed to a senior administration official said that the U.S. government "has provided allies with an accurate account of North Korea's nuclear proliferation activities."

Although the briefings did not mention Pakistan by name, the official said they made it clear that the sale went through the illicit network operated by Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, Abdel Qadeer Khan. But the briefings gave no indication that U.S. intelligence believes that the material had been bought by Pakistan and transferred there from North Korea in a container owned by the Pakistani government.

They also gave no indication that the uranium was then shipped via a Pakistani company to Dubai in the United Arab Emirates and on to Libya. Those findings match assessments by the International Atomic Energy Agency, which is investigating Libya separately. Libya gave up its nuclear weapons program in December 2003.

Since Pakistan became a key U.S. ally in the hunt for al Qaeda leaders, the administration has not held President Pervez Musharraf accountable for actions taken by Khan while he was a member of Musharraf's cabinet and in charge of nuclear cooperation for the government.

"The administration is giving Pakistan a free ride when they don't deserve it and hurting U.S. interests at the same time," said Charles L. Pritchard, who was the Bush administration's special envoy for the North Korea talks until August 2003.
....


it goes on, but who the **** cares....
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:26 AM   #2
penchief penchief is offline
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Originally Posted by the Talking Can
In an effort to repair the damage, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is traveling through East Asia this weekend trying to get the six-nation talks back on track.
DING! DING!

Not only a lie, but a change of heart? Isn't that supposed to be called a flip-flop? Next thing you know they'll be supporting negotiations with Iran. Wait a minute...........

I shouldn't make light of the retrocons' back-tracking (or flip-flopping) considering that diplomacy is a tool that I have advocated since day one. Why the change of heart, I wonder?
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:41 AM   #3
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:55 AM   #4
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:12 PM   #5
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Oh yes! I have to agree, and it's somewhat startling how far the US (a "good" country) will go to serve its interests.
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:13 PM   #6
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I've tried and tried, and I can't figure what the big deal is.
Pakistan is an important, but shaky, ally.
There are elements in Pakistan that are really helping us, and elements that are looking to either hurt us or simply advance their own interests.
I can't see the diplomatic value in laying Pakistan's dirty laundry bare, when it's not clear how much government sanction it enjoys, but it's abundantly clear how embarassing it would be to those elements that are presently our allies.
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:10 PM   #7
penchief penchief is offline
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee
I've tried and tried, and I can't figure what the big deal is.
Pakistan is an important, but shaky, ally.
There are elements in Pakistan that are really helping us, and elements that are looking to either hurt us or simply advance their own interests.
I can't see the diplomatic value in laying Pakistan's dirty laundry bare, when it's not clear how much government sanction it enjoys, but it's abundantly clear how embarassing it would be to those elements that are presently our allies.
There is nothing wrong with keeping our mouth shut about Pakistan. But it was Pakistan that sold the shit to Libya, not North Korea.

The problem exists when we start making stuff up to support our case against someone that's on our shit-list. To our allies and the rest of the world it just looks like the same shit, different day. This is the kind of crap that undermines our credibility and makes it more difficult to get things done.

We would have been better off not opening our mouth at all instead of making a false claim, again.
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Old 03-23-2005, 07:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penchief
There is nothing wrong with keeping our mouth shut about Pakistan. But it was Pakistan that sold the shit to Libya, not North Korea.
The materials went from NK to Khan to Libya. Khan is a face of the Paki govt, but he's also known to deal in the illicit traffic for nukes. I find the admin's thesis that Paki/Khan was just an intermediary between NK and Libya reasonable.
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Old 03-23-2005, 07:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee
The materials went from NK to Khan to Libya. Khan is a face of the Paki govt, but he's also known to deal in the illicit traffic for nukes. I find the admin's thesis that Paki/Khan was just an intermediary between NK and Libya reasonable.
But without proof, just because it fulfills the agenda, makes a better story for your side. I don't think the other nations we are dealing with are finding it reasonable. Just another indication that diplomatically this president is amongst the worst in US history.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:41 PM   #10
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The materials went from NK to Khan to Libya. Khan is a face of the Paki govt, but he's also known to deal in the illicit traffic for nukes. I find the admin's thesis that Paki/Khan was just an intermediary between NK and Libya reasonable.
Just like the Iraq situation, there were plenty of people within the intelligence community that poo-pooed that idea before the administration started slinging it. Same shit, different day.

What does it take for a conservative to start questioning this type of behavior. At what point will conservatives believe that this type of crap hurts us more than it helps us?

I would have thought some of you would already be there.
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:06 PM   #11
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penchief
There is nothing wrong with keeping our mouth shut about Pakistan. But it was Pakistan that sold the shit to Libya, not North Korea.

The problem exists when we start making stuff up to support our case against someone that's on our shit-list. To our allies and the rest of the world it just looks like the same shit, different day. This is the kind of crap that undermines our credibility and makes it more difficult to get things done.

We would have been better off not opening our mouth at all instead of making a false claim, again.
North Korean nuclear materials ended up in the hands of another party that we didn't want to have them. It doesn't matter how many middle men were involved, it's still not a good thing. If North Korea didn't have a supply of nuclear materials, they couldn't fall into the wrong hands.

Should we give NK a pass as long as they are careful enough to use middlemen in their transactions? I'm not saying this is what happened (because I don't know), I'm just saying it's not necessarily as benign as you make it out to be (because you don't know).
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:46 PM   #13
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Is there anything funnier than seeing a liberal concerned about honesty from their president?
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:49 AM   #14
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Is there anything funnier than seeing a liberal concerned about honesty from their president?
When it comes to things that are actually pertinent to the conduct of my country's business? You bet.

When it comes to the politics of personal destruction for political gain? naw.

What would be funnier (and even rarer) is a conservative that is actually concerned about the honesty of their president when it is pertinent to conduct of their country's business.
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Old 03-24-2005, 08:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penchief
When it comes to things that are actually pertinent to the conduct of my country's business? You bet.

When it comes to the politics of personal destruction for political gain? naw.

What would be funnier (and even rarer) is a conservative that is actually concerned about the honesty of their president when it is pertinent to conduct of their country's business.
Yeah - taking bribes from the Chinese certainly isn't relevant to the country's business.
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