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Old 03-26-2006, 08:20 AM  
Sully Sully is online now
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Fantastic Column re: Religion and Government

I couldn't agree more. As a Christian, who is very serious about his faith, it's hard to constantly be portrayed as "attacking" Christianity for wanting it out of my government (I do want to attack Christmas, though.,..it's got to go). This article couldn't do a better job of summing up my feelings.

(I will post it in the next post, so if this thread goes more than 1 page, you won't have to scroll past it every time you go to another page.)

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/14179181.htm
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Old 03-29-2006, 09:39 PM   #16
Mr. Kotter Mr. Kotter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept Havelock
JMO, but we got along fine without "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance from the time Francis Bellamy wrote it in 1892 until some politicans in the 50's decided it would be a politically expedient way to help fight the "Godless Red Hordes".
I can play THIS game:

JMO, but we got along fine with prayer in schools from the founding of the country, until the Warren Court decided in Engle vs. Vitale that it would be a politically expedient way to help fight the "Evil Christians".


Heh.

As far as my library, while I'm fascinated by religion....I'm comfortable where I am, so I haven't explored the Eastern or Agnostic-Atheist-Pagan stuff too much.
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Old 03-29-2006, 09:51 PM   #17
Adept Havelock Adept Havelock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
I can play THIS game:

JMO, but we got along fine with prayer in schools in from the founding of the country, until until the Warren Court decided in Engle vs. Vitale that it would be a politically expedient way to help fight the "Evil Christians".


Heh.

As far as my library, while I'm fascinated by religion....I'm comfortable where I am, so I haven't explored the Eastern or Agnostic-Atheist-Pagan stuff too much.

Touche'.

I can see the progression of Agnostic-Atheist...but don't see how Pagan fits in with them. The Pagans I've known (and that's a fun bunch at a party!) seem like most religious folks to me. Some are "social" about it, and others whose faith is like fire.

Just curious.

BTW- I still think E Pluribus Unum relates more to our nations formation and ideals than it's usurper.
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Old 03-29-2006, 09:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept Havelock
Touche'.

I can see the progression of Agnostic-Atheist...but don't see how Pagan fits in with them. The Pagans I've known (and that's a fun bunch at a party!) seem like most religious folks to me. Some are "social" about it, and others whose faith is like fire.

Just curious.

BTW- I still think E Pluribus Unum relates more to our nations formation and ideals than it's usurper.
Heh. I just threw them in, because they tend to make people squirm....as some consider them a step away from the Satanic groups.

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Old 03-29-2006, 11:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully
I think there is a big misunderstanding on the limiting of public displays of worship. Maybe it's a misunderstanding by those that feel Christianity is "under attack" (I can't even type it without laughing... seriously), maybe it's a misunderstanding by me... who knows.
I don't think, though, that anyone is against private people, companies, whatever, displaying their faith to the hilt. If Wal Mart wants to put a giant cross on top of their stores, GREAT! If Cabela's wants to build the world's biggest Nativity scene... STUPENDOUS!!
But for the government, in any form, to promote religion, or a sect of a religion, is where the line, IMO should be drawn. I don't need courthouses teaching me about Moses, or parks portraying a vrirgin giving birth. Even among Christians there are disagreements for this type of thing, and for the government to pay for something of the sort, it is an endorsement, in however small a way, and I would prefer that the government kept its hands out of it.
Agree completely.
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Old 03-30-2006, 05:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
Heh. I just threw them in, because they tend to make people squirm....as some consider them a step away from the Satanic groups.

Yes, I know certain ignorant people make that mistake.

I don't know about making people squirm, but they certainly know how to throw one hell of a party!
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Old 03-31-2006, 12:13 AM   #21
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http://www.spectrumz.com/z/media/godwill.mp3
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:57 PM   #22
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May 5th 2014 supreme court decision Town of Greece vs Galloway
Quote:
the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 5-4 in favor of the Town of Greece, and that the town's practice of beginning legislative sessions with prayers does not violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:31 PM   #23
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Well, it's a local town and the Constitution was written primarily as a check on the power of the federal govt. I don't know if this SC went there but it doesn't appear to. Imagine all the previous cases that would fall apart if they did. We'd have federalism restored!
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:13 PM   #24
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Tammeus is a liberal shit. I don't care one wit what he thinks about anything. People who whine about "separation of church and state!" are only mad that religious folks dare vote against their sancrosanct big government views. Since many of them have replaced religion with government anyway, they're the last to speak about voting personal beliefs.

Whether you're a Christian, Buddhist or atheist, you vote your personal beliefs. Demanding one subset drop their personal views is not just dumb, but insulting
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:47 PM   #25
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Here then is the danger of resurrecting an 8-year-old thread to discuss a tangentially related contemporary topic. PB just responded to a conversation that ended while Bush was still in office. I understand the practice of searching for relevant topics to avoid making extraneous threads, but for our sanity's sake, please try cutting off your search backwards through time at maybe a year, and if you have a new article, go ahead and make a new thread.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:47 PM   #26
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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As for the Town of Greece ruling, it was clearly right down party lines. I tend to side with Kagan on this one, basically for all of the reasons she stated, and because Separation of Church and State is vital to keep things fair for both Church and State.

That said, I can understand Kennedy's arguments as well. For one thing, this article says that 'most times' it has been a Christian blessing, that means that sometimes it wasn't. Also, it's been a different pastor each month, meaning different denominations even within Christianity, so those two together mean it's hardly the establishment of a single religion.

One of my highly liberal Facebook friends is, as I type this, freaking out. I have refrained from responding to his post, because I honestly don't think it's going to be the downfall of civilization if Pastor O'Flaherty from the First Church down the street wants to give a blessing. Go for it, Town of Greece, and congratulations on your win.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:41 PM   #27
Sully Sully is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
Here then is the danger of resurrecting an 8-year-old thread to discuss a tangentially related contemporary topic. PB just responded to a conversation that ended while Bush was still in office. I understand the practice of searching for relevant topics to avoid making extraneous threads, but for our sanity's sake, please try cutting off your search backwards through time at maybe a year, and if you have a new article, go ahead and make a new thread.

He didn't respond to the conversation, even. He just puked out his knee jerk reaction to the topic.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:47 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
Here then is the danger of resurrecting an 8-year-old thread to discuss a tangentially related contemporary topic. PB just responded to a conversation that ended while Bush was still in office. I understand the practice of searching for relevant topics to avoid making extraneous threads, but for our sanity's sake, please try cutting off your search backwards through time at maybe a year, and if you have a new article, go ahead and make a new thread.
I read Tammeus column as originally posted, was there something that doesn't apply to today? Does it really matter who's in office? This has gone on for decades. If there was a new development that I missed, mea culpa
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:13 PM   #29
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As for the Town of Greece ruling, it was clearly right down party lines.
didnt know there were parties in the supreme court or party lines.
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:49 PM   #30
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Meaning the five conservatives (Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Kennedy, and Scalia, who were nominated by Republicans), and the four liberals (Ginsberg, Sotomayor, Kagan, and Breyer, who were nominated by Democrats).
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