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Old 04-12-2006, 08:47 AM  
Braincase Braincase is offline
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Contributing to our Venezuelan Problem

I wonder if drug trafficking is cause to invade?

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5 1/2 Tons of Cocaine Found on Venezuela Plane
Apr 11 10:30 PM US/Eastern
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MEXICO CITY


Mexican soldiers seized 5 1/2 tons of cocaine from a commercial plane arriving from Venezuela, Mexico's Defense Department announced Tuesday.

The army was waiting for the plane on Monday at the airport of Cuidad de Carmen, 550 miles east of Mexico City, after receiving information from Venezuelan and U.S. authorities, Gen. Carlos Gaytan told a news conference.

Soldiers arrested Colombian Miguel Vazquez, 47, who was the plane's co-pilot, but the pilot escaped, Gaytan said. There were no passengers.

U.S. and Mexican officials say that cocaine and heroin is increasingly passing from Colombia through Venezuela to Mexico where it is smuggled into the United States. While drug traffickers used planes to smuggle large quantities of drugs in the 1990s, most Mexican traffickers now use land and sea routes.

A U.S. State Department report released in March said that Venezuela has become a key transit point for drugs because of "rampant corruption at the highest levels of law enforcement and a weak judicial system."

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez suspended cooperation with the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration in August, accusing its agents of spying.
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Old 04-12-2006, 01:09 PM   #2
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I hope not. I'm not sure what it would really accomplish, long term.

I've become convinced this is a problem of our own making. Demand is driving supply. They may be supplying, but the real problem lies with the continued demand in this country. Until we address that, in an effective way....nothing else will likely matter.
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:08 PM   #3
Boozer Boozer is offline
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I hope Chavez gets violated with a rusty farm implement.
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:20 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozer
I hope Chavez gets violated with a rusty farm implement.
you don't think we were doing espionage with our DEA agents?
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:45 PM   #5
jiveturkey jiveturkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
I hope not. I'm not sure what it would really accomplish, long term.

I've become convinced this is a problem of our own making. Demand is driving supply. They may be supplying, but the real problem lies with the continued demand in this country. Until we address that, in an effective way....nothing else will likely matter.
We should start by locking everyone up.
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:48 PM   #6
Boozer Boozer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
you don't think we were doing espionage with our DEA agents?
Probably. My desire for him to be penetrated with a dirty rake has nothing to do with his relations with the U.S. He's the worst petty tyrant in the Western Hemisphere (yes, I know who else is in that category). The Venezuelans keep on electing him, though, so I guess they deserve what they get.
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
I hope not. I'm not sure what it would really accomplish, long term.

I've become convinced this is a problem of our own making. Demand is driving supply. They may be supplying, but the real problem lies with the continued demand in this country. Until we address that, in an effective way....nothing else will likely matter.

Yep. Much like prohibition it is an unwinnable battle unless demand drops.

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Old 04-12-2006, 04:21 PM   #8
banyon banyon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozer
Probably. My desire for him to be penetrated with a dirty rake has nothing to do with his relations with the U.S. He's the worst petty tyrant in the Western Hemisphere (yes, I know who else is in that category). The Venezuelans keep on electing him, though, so I guess they deserve what they get.
IMO, there is a tremendous amount of underinformed bias against him in the American press b/c he has nationalized interests in the country formerly held by wealthy american businessmen. He gave back much of the land owned by giant MNC agribusinesses to the indian/poor farmers. No wonder this Administration hates him. He is a threat to everything that they stand for (aka the interests of giant MNC's).


We did half-stage a CIA coup against him until the people revolted.

Plus you have the whole Pat Robertson praying for his assassination.
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Old 04-12-2006, 05:10 PM
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Old 04-12-2006, 05:10 PM   #9
Adept Havelock Adept Havelock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
I hope not. I'm not sure what it would really accomplish, long term.

I've become convinced this is a problem of our own making. Demand is driving supply. They may be supplying, but the real problem lies with the continued demand in this country. Until we address that, in an effective way....nothing else will likely matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane
Yep. Much like prohibition it is an unwinnable battle unless demand drops.
You gentlemen both have it right. Unless demand is reduced, supply will be maintained. I know it;s not a popular view, but I'm beginning to think decriminalization and taxation (with funds going towards "rehab for addicts" efforts and going after what narcotic black market remains) might be the best option. Remove the profit motive, and many of the problems with narcotics trafficing will go away. The addicts will get the stuff one way or another, why not just make them go to the pharmacy instead?

At least that way it will be out in the open, and the massive profits that fuel most of the violence and other incidental crime that goes with trafficing would both drop.

Sure, we'd have problems with addicts afterward, but we already have plenty of those problems. Treat it like alcohol, except I'd put some draconian penalties on those that let kids have access to it. That, and maybe a campaign to increase the social stigma associated with addiction.

I know many will disagree with this, but as for the occasional user, it's not my cup of tea (or, more appropriately glass of vino), but I can't get bent out of shape about what an adult does on thier own time. That is, with the caveat that they be personally responsible about and for it. I think it's time to make drugs an issue of personal responsibility, not government prohibition.

I understand the arguments against it. I'm willing to listen to new ideas. I'm just tired of trying to fight the same losing battle that we finally ended (as far as alcohol is concerned) with the 21'st amendment in 1933.
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:17 PM   #10
Boozer Boozer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
IMO, there is a tremendous amount of underinformed bias against him in the American press b/c he has nationalized interests in the country formerly held by wealthy american businessmen. He gave back much of the land owned by giant MNC agribusinesses to the indian/poor farmers. No wonder this Administration hates him. He is a threat to everything that they stand for (aka the interests of giant MNC's).


We did half-stage a CIA coup against him until the people revolted.

Plus you have the whole Pat Robertson praying for his assassination.
I've hated Chavez since 2000. I'm old school like that. Again, the nationalization has nothing to do with my dislike.
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:19 PM   #11
banyon banyon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozer
I've hated Chavez since 2000. I'm old school like that. Again, the nationalization has nothing to do with my dislike.
I got it.

But what's your beef with him?
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:20 PM   #12
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I'm all for decriminalization, regulation, and taxation, but a quicker fix would be to close the ****ing border. This would also mitigate several other issues.
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:23 PM   #13
Boozer Boozer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
I got it.

But what's your beef with him?
Not much, I guess....just that he's the worst abuser of human rights in the Western Hemisphere. Give him another couple of years and Pinochet will seem warm and cuddly by comparison.
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:25 PM   #14
Boozer Boozer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
I got it.

But what's your beef with him?
I should add, the wacko-right isn't the only segment of America that doesn't like this guy. One of my favorite undergrad profs, a South American politics guru (and avowed Marxist), would become incensed at the mere mention of his name.
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:28 PM   #15
banyon banyon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozer
I should add, the wacko-right isn't the only segment of America that doesn't like this guy. One of my favorite undergrad profs, a South American politics guru (and avowed Marxist), would become incensed at the mere mention of his name.
I understand. I feel the same way about Donald Rumsfeld.
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