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Old 04-14-2006, 09:06 PM  
Chiefs Express Chiefs Express is offline
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What if we had the internet during FDR's Presidency?

Just thinking about the speed of communications in today's society, what would have happened if the communication was then what it is today?

Think about how history would have been changed and ask yourself if the U.S.A. would have survived to today. Dring the late 30's and through the end of FDR's presidency there were many people that detested FDR for the way he ran the country much like Bush is now hated because of the way he is running the country.

Think about FDR and then consider every president since then and how the speed of communications sends news around the world in a flash, whether it is right or not.

It brings up some pretty interesting tidbits from time to time.

What would have been done when JFK was porking Marilyn Monroe.

What would have been done when Nixon was wiretapping the Watergate?

What would have been the situation created by Harry Truman when he dropped the Atomic bombs in Japan?

With the dissent during FDR's presidency, would he have even been re-elected more than once or twice?
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Old 04-14-2006, 11:04 PM   #2
Adept Havelock Adept Havelock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefs Express
With the dissent during FDR's presidency, would he have even been re-elected more than once or twice?

Of course there were plenty of people that considered FDR just to the left of Vladimir Illych. There's really been nothing said about Clinton or Bush (or Nixon for that matter) that wasn't said about FDR. Frequently as "news" instead of opinion on the various partisan newspapers and radio announcers like "Father" Coughlin.

Ever heard of the "Liberty League"? They, with Wall Street allies and members of the American Legion tried to put togther the first Putsch since Washington put down one and formed the Order of Cinncinatus. Thankfully, the Republic was saved because the General they attempted to recruit to run the putsch was more of a patriot than they bargained for. For that, I've always been very grateful to General Smedley Butler, USMC Ret.

Would he have been re-elected? IMO, quite probably.
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Last edited by Adept Havelock; 04-14-2006 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 04-15-2006, 08:57 AM   #3
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My point is basically that the country is going to survive regardless of all of the bantering on the board regarding the job that President Bush is doing, good or bad.

There are quite a few items that are better now than in years and some things that are worse.

The attacks in NY and DC might have been able to been ferreted out, but at the time they were pulled off it was pretty much unprecidented.

I see that both sides of the arguments currently raging are overlooking facts that would not support their arguments.

I just find it sad that we cannot all work together.
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Old 04-15-2006, 11:27 AM   #4
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I do not remember anyone strong running against FDR. It is much like it is today when it comes to decent choices. Clinton did not have much opposition in 1996. 2000 was a coin toss. 2004 was the same as the last few elections. I do remember that in one of his tries to become elected again that his opponent actually had some damaging information on FDR or his Administration. FDR or one of his people asked them not to use it because of the war and the shape of the Country at the time. They agreed not to use it out of respect. How times have changed. With the internet it would have circulated around the world after one could inhale and before they could have exhaled. It may have changed history. I wish that I could remember what exactly it was. You never know though. Dewey did defeat Truman.
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Old 04-15-2006, 12:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Lake
You never know though. Dewey did defeat Truman.
Definitely a great historical moment for Right-Wing journalism!
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Old 04-15-2006, 07:54 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Adept Havelock
Definitely a great historical moment for Right-Wing journalism!
Was it considered right-wing back then? I think politics were just cleaner back then, at least in the labeling department. It seems like it was just Republicans, Democrats, and the others.
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Old 04-15-2006, 08:07 PM   #7
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You are correct. It was the Big Business Republicans and the Democrats.
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Old 04-15-2006, 08:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefs Express
Was it considered right-wing back then? I think politics were just cleaner back then, at least in the labeling department. It seems like it was just Republicans, Democrats, and the others.
Sadly, yes. The RW/LW labels were pretty strong then as well, aggrevated by the depression. The Chicago Tribune's editor was strongly RW, and was pretty much to FDR as Air America is to Bush, or Rush Limbaugh was to Clinton. Father Couglin, a radio announcer, was in a similar vein.

I think we tend to idealize the past, but politics has always been a dirty game in this country, especially since the late 19th and early 20th century and the birth of mass media ("Yellow" Journalism, Radio, then TV, and now the Internet). Newspapers used to be the main method of expression and propaganda for political parties. Plenty of mud-flinging to go around, from both sides.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. I'd guess Politics has been a dirty game since mankind first formed tribes, and someone else wanted to be chief. It was certainly cutthroat (and not just figuratively) in ancient Greece and Rome.
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Old 04-15-2006, 08:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept Havelock
I think we tend to idealize the past, but politics has always been a dirty game in this country, especially since the late 19th and early 20th century and the birth of mass media ("Yellow" Journalism, Radio, then TV, and now the Internet). Newspapers used to be the main method of expression and propaganda for political parties. Plenty of mud-flinging to go around, from both sides.
.
Reminds me of the History Channel "The Presidents" episode I saw of John Quincy Adams/Andrew Jackson. Several historians they interviewed believed that it was the dirtiest election we've ever had.

Supposedly, Adams supporters charged Jackson with being an immoral "Bigamist" because he was seeing his wife Rachel before she was officially divorced from her previous husband. Of course they called her a "whore", or other euphemisms for the same.

Jackson supporters in turn, charged that Adams was "whoring" out his virgin daughter to the Czar of Russia. (ther was some sort of arranged marriage set up).

Jackson also accused Adams of corrupting the election process in the previous election when Adams had defeated him when the election ws thrown to the House and Henry Clay, who had also run for president and lost, helped guide the House in Adams' favor. He ws rewarded with the position of Secretary of State (I think).

After Jackson won, his wife Rachel died. He said in a speech that he would forgive those who had personally attacked him, but he would never forgive those who attacked Rachel. He swore revenge and he pretty much got it by destroying all of those people's careers through various methods.
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Old 04-15-2006, 08:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
Reminds me of the History Channel "The Presidents" episode I saw of John Quincy Adams/Andrew Jackson. Several historians they interviewed believed that it was the dirtiest election we've ever had.

Supposedly, Adams supporters charged Jackson with being an immoral "Bigamist" because he was seeing his wife Rachel before she was officially divorced from her previous husband. Of course they called her a "whore", or other euphemisms for the same.

Jackson supporters in turn, charged that Adams was "whoring" out his virgin daughter to the Czar of Russia. (ther was some sort of arranged marriage set up).

Jackson also accused Adams of corrupting the election process in the previous election when Adams had defeated him when the election ws thrown to the House and Henry Clay, who had also run for president and lost, helped guide the House in Adams' favor. He ws rewarded with the position of Secretary of State (I think).


After Jackson won, his wife Rachel died. He said in a speech that he would forgive those who had personally attacked him, but he would never forgive those who attacked Rachel. He swore revenge and he pretty much got it by destroying all of those people's careers through various methods.


I've seen it. Good show. I also recommend "The Making of the President, 1789" by Marvin Kitman. It's an excellently researched (and quite funny) account of post-war George Washington leading up to his Inaguration, written in the modern "Campaign tell-all" style. Back then, believe it or not, there were plenty willing to fling mud at the father of our country.
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Old 04-15-2006, 09:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefs Express
Was it considered right-wing back then? I think politics were just cleaner back then, at least in the labeling department. It seems like it was just Republicans, Democrats, and the others.
Are you kidding?
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Old 04-16-2006, 07:04 AM   #12
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Are you kidding?


I don't remember anyone ringing your chimes. Why don't you let the adults continue the conversation?
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Old 04-16-2006, 12:34 PM   #13
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People love to call for bipartisanship, or better yet nonpartisanship, but what they really want is for people to stop trashing their ideas and leaders. Bipartisanship is great, as long as everyone is bipartisan on my side.

Politics has been and will be for some time dirty partisanship. That may be annoying, but it'd be less of a problem if both sides would stop tolerating mediocrity.
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Old 04-18-2006, 10:51 PM   #14
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People love to call for bipartisanship, or better yet nonpartisanship, but what they really want is for people to stop trashing their ideas and leaders. Bipartisanship is great, as long as everyone is bipartisan on my side.

Politics has been and will be for some time dirty partisanship. That may be annoying, but it'd be less of a problem if both sides would stop tolerating mediocrity.
In today's society there isn't anyone willing to run for office that has any, and I mean ANY, dirty laundry. Hell, you don't even have to have dirty laundry for the opposing side to start with the mud slinging.
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Old 04-18-2006, 11:00 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Chiefs Express
In today's society there isn't anyone willing to run for office that has any, and I mean ANY, dirty laundry. Hell, you don't even have to have dirty laundry for the opposing side to start with the mud slinging.
See Rove (2000).
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