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Old 06-21-2006, 05:27 PM  
Chiefs Minor Satellite Chiefs Minor Satellite is offline
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The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage

If we raise the minimum wage are we only increasing the prevailing wage of the illegal immigrants?

Sounds very democratic to me.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage, rejecting an election-year proposal from Democrats for the first increase in nearly a decade.


The vote was 52-46, eight short of the 60 needed.


"I don't think the Republicans get it," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy,
D-Massachusetts, who backed a proposal for a three-step increase in the current wage floor to $7.25 an hour. The federal minimum wage has been fixed at $5.15 an hour since 1997.


Republican critics said the minimum wage was a job killer, not the boon to low-wage workers portrayed by Democrats.


"This is a classic debate between two different philosophies. One
philosophy believes in the marketplace, competition and entrepreneurship, and the second is a philosophy that says government knows best," said Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Georgia. He said France and Germany have high minimum wages but also high unemployment.


But Kennedy and other advocates of an increase said minimum wage workers have been without a raise since 1997.


Underscoring the political context of the debate, he said if Democrats win the Senate this November, a minimum wage increase will be one of the first pieces of legislation to be considered.
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Old 06-22-2006, 11:42 AM   #151
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
Why does everyone in this thread against an increase seem to be ignoring this fact?

Inflation didn't change, it actually went down after the last raise. Unemployment didn't significantly change either.

Isn't the actual data relevant?
I can't speak for the others but I'm ignoring it because:

Fact: Inflation is when the govt prints more money flooding the economy with more dollars in circulation cheaping the value of the dollar. This is essentially a stealth tax. Dollar today is worth about $.04 to it's original value. Inflation is not a real increase in price due to increase costs.

I also believe in the subjective value of labor and costs.
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Old 06-22-2006, 11:49 AM   #152
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
Why does everyone in this thread against an increase seem to be ignoring this fact?



Inflation didn't change, it actually went down after the last raise. Unemployment didn't significantly change either.

Isn't the actual data relevant?
Wasn't this patently obvious to anyone who was not battling a coma at the time? How low can expectations of the intelligence of the opposing side be?
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Old 06-22-2006, 11:55 AM   #153
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At this time with our current debt and business climate, inflation pressure, min. wage increase makes little sense.

Take an economics class.
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:00 PM   #154
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
Wasn't this patently obvious to anyone who was not battling a coma at the time? How low can expectations of the intelligence of the opposing side be?
No! Not when you operate on the wrong definition of inflation.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:07 PM   #155
banyon banyon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
I can't speak for the others but I'm ignoring it because:

Fact: Inflation is when the govt prints more money flooding the economy with more dollars in circulation cheaping the value of the dollar. This is essentially a stealth tax. Dollar today is worth about $.04 to it's original value. Inflation is not a real increase in price due to increase costs.

I also believe in the subjective value of labor and costs.
This isn't accurate. Inflation can occur with an increase in the money supply or increased consumption prices.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:10 PM   #156
banyon banyon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nm_dbf
At this time with our current debt and business climate, inflation pressure, min. wage increase makes little sense.

Take an economics class.
Why don't you try responding to the actual data instead of tossing around insults. I would bet $ that I have taken more econ classes than anyone who posted in this thread with the exception of BEP and maybe jettio, and there are perfectly viable explanations well within sound economic principles about why a min.wage increase would not lead to inflation, and what does the debt have to do with this? If anything severe inflation would actually reduce what we owe on the debt by making outstanding principal less valuable in real terms.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:12 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
No! Not when you operate on the wrong definition of inflation.
I appreciate what you are saying, but I don't think the Fed and the Treasury is going to adopt some Austrian insitute's definition of inflation to fix the problem, so let's operate with the standard terminolgy please.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:23 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
Why don't you try responding to the actual data instead of tossing around insults.
Yet another example of you and yours deflecting and redirecting, see below, or reprimand your brother, cracka ass cracka (since this isn't truly a racial slur)

Allow me to quote another intellectual dipshit, "Wasn't this patently obvious to anyone who was not battling a coma at the time? How low can expectations of the intelligence of the opposing side be?"


You two deserve each other
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:25 PM   #159
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
... or increased consumption prices.
No banyon that's a common misconception....they are NOT the same. Increase in price is an increase in price reflecting other market phenomena. An increase in price due to more money in circulation is just compensation for the shrinking value of money...it's like climbing a ladder while really being on the same rung.


It's not an Austrian definition either.
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Last edited by BucEyedPea; 06-22-2006 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:50 PM   #160
banyon banyon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chagrin
Yet another example of you and yours deflecting and redirecting, see below, or reprimand your brother, cracka ass cracka (since this isn't truly a racial slur)

Allow me to quote another intellectual dipshit, "Wasn't this patently obvious to anyone who was not battling a coma at the time? How low can expectations of the intelligence of the opposing side be?"


You two deserve each other

I don't know what your issue is with me, but you always seem very bitter against what I post. We're both Royals fans, we should stick together and let the political BS remain political BS.

I don't post like 'Hamas', despite your description. I try my best to treat other posters with respect and address the post and not the poster. If I fall short of that sometimes, then I try to make amends.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:55 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
No banyon that's a common misconception....they are NOT the same. Increase in price is an increase in price reflecting other market phenomena. An increase in price due to more money in circulation is just compensation for the shrinking value of money...it's like climbing a ladder while really being on the same rung.
Price increases may force the Fed's hands, but still it is the increased consumption costs that is the cause, not monetary policy.
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Old 06-22-2006, 02:06 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
But that undermines the very nature of their argument, which is thinly veiled class warfare based on a premise of greed and selfishness.
If it's class warfare, it's a defensive war. The class warriors here are the people who think like you and Moooo who want to artificially enhance the wages of the minimum wage worker at the expense of the middle and upper classes.
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Old 06-22-2006, 02:15 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu
If it's class warfare, it's a defensive war. The class warriors here are the people who think like you and Moooo who want to artificially enhance the wages of the minimum wage worker at the expense of the middle and upper classes.
I agree with you that it's defensive, but I disagree with you on which side is doing the defending. The middle class is shrinking in this country and the upper 1% have a larger share of the total national wealth than ever before.
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Old 06-22-2006, 02:22 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
Price increases may force the Fed's hands, but still it is the increased consumption costs that is the cause, not monetary policy.
That's cognitive dissonance or propaganda by redefinition of words.

The key to understanding inflation is it is a MONETARY phenomenon, not a supply/demand imbalance in a commodity.

Webster’s massive current unabridged dictionary defines inflation as “a persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency.”


I can post charts showing that inflation is actually soaring since year 2000.
Food and energy has been taken out of the statistics...and those are rising rapidly. I notice it at the supermarket every week and can see it.
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Old 06-22-2006, 02:25 PM   #165
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon
I agree with you that it's defensive, but I disagree with you on which side is doing the defending. The middle class is shrinking in this country and the upper 1% have a larger share of the total national wealth than ever before.
I agree with you but this does not contradict patteeu, as he said this has been done at the expense of the middle-class. These things are the RESULT of the Keynesian economics our govt uses which is basically a form of socialism. This creates equal poverty for all. Less of this approach not more is the answer.
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