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Old 06-21-2006, 05:27 PM  
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The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage

If we raise the minimum wage are we only increasing the prevailing wage of the illegal immigrants?

Sounds very democratic to me.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage, rejecting an election-year proposal from Democrats for the first increase in nearly a decade.


The vote was 52-46, eight short of the 60 needed.


"I don't think the Republicans get it," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy,
D-Massachusetts, who backed a proposal for a three-step increase in the current wage floor to $7.25 an hour. The federal minimum wage has been fixed at $5.15 an hour since 1997.


Republican critics said the minimum wage was a job killer, not the boon to low-wage workers portrayed by Democrats.


"This is a classic debate between two different philosophies. One
philosophy believes in the marketplace, competition and entrepreneurship, and the second is a philosophy that says government knows best," said Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Georgia. He said France and Germany have high minimum wages but also high unemployment.


But Kennedy and other advocates of an increase said minimum wage workers have been without a raise since 1997.


Underscoring the political context of the debate, he said if Democrats win the Senate this November, a minimum wage increase will be one of the first pieces of legislation to be considered.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:37 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
Well, Moo that is just not true. I KNOW it's not true because I've made my money off the corporate world...and I know many more.
Do you think the amount of women you know in the corporate world exceeds that of the men? Cause women are something like 52% of the population, I mean if what you're saying is fully true, then 52% of the corporate world would be women as well...

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Old 06-21-2006, 10:38 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
And yet 95% of all CEOs are men...

Hmmm....you do know that Eisner of Disney offers health benefits to gay partners too without the govt telling him they have to?

BTW I edited above...I wasn't done.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:38 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by jettio
I think that the stiff competition would also have to pay their workers the higher minimum wage.

I think an interesting question about this whole minimum wage thing would be the impact on the number of people eligible for the earned income credit.

If a someone has kids and the best they can do is minimum wage, they make an amount if money that means no federal taxes and they get up to a couple thousand from the treasury. It is intended to help people who work but do not make much money.

Somebody go read up on this and report back. I nominate recjake if he is not out chasing girls.

If your profit margin is $.02 on the dollar (net of course) and your labor cost goes up $.01 you have lost 1/2 your profit margin. You want to know why customer service has gone to hell in this country? Because the business owner has to try to maintain that $.02 margin and the only wiggle room they have is the labot cost. So, cut 10% of your work force and wind up with people standing in longer lines, employees who are expected to do 10% more work in the same amount of time become more frazzled and less likely to maintain a cheerful attitude, etc.

If most of the market is already paying above this false wage level, what is the point in raising it? It is a feel good political move to show how compassionate the pols are for the poor.

I really would appreciate an answer to my other question about market clearing price, I really am curious what this is and see an opportunity to learn. I may not have gone to college but I have a good head on my shoulders and still very much enjoy learning new things.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:39 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moooo
Do you think the amount of women you know in the corporate world exceeds that of the men? Cause women are something like 52% of the population, I mean if what you're saying is fully true, then 52% of the corporate world would be women as well...

Moooo
Go into a thread in the lounge and see what I say to that. Hams will direct you.
Many women pick jobs with time flexibility due to other choices particularly when they have kids. Those choices result in lower pay. I made such adjustments myself.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:40 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moooo
Do you think the amount of women you know in the corporate world exceeds that of the men? Cause women are something like 52% of the population, I mean if what you're saying is fully true, then 52% of the corporate world would be women as well...

Moooo
That would only be the case if all women wanted to work in those fields. My wife is perfectly happy as a stay at home mom, that is her career of choice and I fully support it for many reasons.

I am not saying women have the same playing field. I think it is much better than it was and about as good as it can get via legislation.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:42 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Hydrae
That would only be the case if all women wanted to work in those fields. My wife is perfectly happy as a stay at home mom, that is her career of choice and I fully support it for many reasons.

I am not saying women have the same playing field. I think it is much better than it was and about as good as it can get via legislation.
I agree and what could be more imporant than preparing a child for life? Best darn job on the planet.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:42 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Hydrae
If most of the market is already paying above this false wage level, what is the point in raising it? It is a feel good political move to show how compassionate the pols are for the poor.
Have you ever worked for minimum wage? I had a boss who said that no matter how long I worked there I would never get a raise above minimum wage, and that if she could pay me, along with all her workers 1 dollar an hour she would, cause that's all anyone deserves.

These types of people need restrictions on them. I don't understand how people can say that business can be trusted to look out for the people. Its not their job, their job is to make money.

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Old 06-21-2006, 10:43 PM   #68
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When the minimum wage went up quite a while ago (I don't remember the year, it was before '97) I worked for Taco Bell Corporate and they reacted by changing the way they prepped food. They called it K Minus or Quick Prep and the idea was to cut down on the number of labor hours needed to get raw product ready and to concentrate the labor dollars in the front of the store instead. They did this because they knew that they couldn't afford to have as many people working per hour as they had in the past. This is one way that companies deal with raises in the Minimum Wage. They cut back on the total number of jobs available. This is also why Taco Bell food doesn't taste as good as it used to.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:44 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
And yet 95% of all CEOs are men...
For some reason...that kind of job just doesn't appeal to me.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:44 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Hydrae
That would only be the case if all women wanted to work in those fields. My wife is perfectly happy as a stay at home mom, that is her career of choice and I fully support it for many reasons.

I am not saying women have the same playing field. I think it is much better than it was and about as good as it can get via legislation.
I totally disagree with that. Countries like Sweeden have proven that women can be just an integral part of the workplace as men. They have done so through legislation.

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Old 06-21-2006, 10:45 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
I agree and what could be more imporant than preparing a child for life? Best darn job on the planet.

It's an incredibly demanding job but the benefits are excellent.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:45 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
Oh really?? Milan, Missouri, about 30 miles from where I went to college is home to a corporate hog farm known as Premium Standard Farms. This area went from less than 1% Hispanic to over 75% Hispanic in less than a decade. Where do they all work?? Said Hog Farm. Look at a construction crew the next time you are out and see how many of them are Hispanic. Why, b/c they can be paid cash under the table at a far lower rate than other workers.

I've owned a construction company for 10 years. I'll guarantee there isn't a single illegal being paid "third world wages" on any construction site in the state of Iowa, or for that matter anywhere in the midwest. Nor is it happening at hog lots or hotel housekeeping departments.

Are some of them being paid less than typical wage? Yes. "Far" less? No.

I think you'd be suprised at how much employers appreciate the work that those Mexicans put in. The money that is being saved by using them isn't in the wages that are being paid.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:46 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Moooo
Have you ever worked for minimum wage? I had a boss who said that no matter how long I worked there I would never get a raise above minimum wage, and that if she could pay me, along with all her workers 1 dollar an hour she would, cause that's all anyone deserves.

These types of people need restrictions on them. I don't understand how people can say that business can be trusted to look out for the people. Its not their job, their job is to make money.

Moooo
I worked for 15 years in fast food, many times at or slightly above minimum wage. If I had a boss like that, I would find a different job as soon as I could. Employers like that do not deserve decent employees. The only way they can get away with that kind of attitude about the people who are running their business is if the employees are willing to allow it to happen. Yes, there are terrible, mean people out there. That doesn't mean that you have to put up with it, there are always options. As I tell my kids, do not give me problems, give me solutions.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:46 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by listopencil
When the minimum wage went up quite a while ago (I don't remember the year, it was before '97) I worked for Taco Bell Corporate and they reacted by changing the way they prepped food. They called it K Minus or Quick Prep and the idea was to cut down on the number of labor hours needed to get raw product ready and to concentrate the labor dollars in the front of the store instead. They did this because they knew that they couldn't afford to have as many people working per hour as they had in the past. This is one way that companies deal with raises in the Minimum Wage. They cut back on the total number of jobs available. This is also why Taco Bell food doesn't taste as good as it used to.
They can afford it, Pepsico is not hurting. They just didn't want to make any less than their 6-7 digit-a-day profit margin. CEOs in this country make usually about 15 times more than CEOs of other countries. Tell me again their companies can't afford it.

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Old 06-21-2006, 10:47 PM   #75
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I worked for 15 years in fast food, many times at or slightly above minimum wage. If I had a boss like that, I would find a different job as soon as I could. Employers like that do not deserve decent employees. The only way they can get away with that kind of attitude about the people who are running their business is if the employees are willing to allow it to happen. Yes, there are terrible, mean people out there. That doesn't mean that you have to put up with it, there are always options. As I tell my kids, do not give me problems, give me solutions.
It was THE only fast food job for 30 miles in any direction. Kids worked there or the grocery store, and it was no better. I think, though, you'd get a quarter raise after a year there, but that's cause they were a chain grocery store.

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