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Old 06-21-2006, 05:27 PM  
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The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage

If we raise the minimum wage are we only increasing the prevailing wage of the illegal immigrants?

Sounds very democratic to me.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage, rejecting an election-year proposal from Democrats for the first increase in nearly a decade.


The vote was 52-46, eight short of the 60 needed.


"I don't think the Republicans get it," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy,
D-Massachusetts, who backed a proposal for a three-step increase in the current wage floor to $7.25 an hour. The federal minimum wage has been fixed at $5.15 an hour since 1997.


Republican critics said the minimum wage was a job killer, not the boon to low-wage workers portrayed by Democrats.


"This is a classic debate between two different philosophies. One
philosophy believes in the marketplace, competition and entrepreneurship, and the second is a philosophy that says government knows best," said Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Georgia. He said France and Germany have high minimum wages but also high unemployment.


But Kennedy and other advocates of an increase said minimum wage workers have been without a raise since 1997.


Underscoring the political context of the debate, he said if Democrats win the Senate this November, a minimum wage increase will be one of the first pieces of legislation to be considered.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:47 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Moooo
Have you ever worked for minimum wage? I had a boss who said that no matter how long I worked there I would never get a raise above minimum wage, and that if she could pay me, along with all her workers 1 dollar an hour she would, cause that's all anyone deserves.

These types of people need restrictions on them. I don't understand how people can say that business can be trusted to look out for the people. Its not their job, their job is to make money.

Moooo
Where do you live? So far all of your anecdotes on the subject don't fit any area that I know.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:49 PM   #77
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It's an incredibly demanding job but the benefits are excellent.

That depends on who you work for!
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:51 PM   #78
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:51 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by jspchief
Where do you live? So far all of your anecdotes on the subject don't fit any area that I know.
I lived in a town in southern Missouri just on the border of Arkansas. We were 30 minutes away from a Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Movie Theater, etc... We were also about 90 miles away from a Mall or Best Buy or anything like that.

Then I moved to Springfield, where the going rate for most jobs is about 6-7.

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Old 06-21-2006, 10:53 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Moooo
I lived in a town in southern Missouri just on the border of Arkansas. We were 30 minutes away from a Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Movie Theater, etc...

Moooo
I hope you moved for better opportunities.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:54 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moooo
They can afford it, Pepsico is not hurting. They just didn't want to make any less than their 6-7 digit-a-day profit margin. CEOs in this country make usually about 15 times more than CEOs of other countries. Tell me again their companies can't afford it.

Moooo

Actually Pepsi hasn't owned Taco Bell for a while now. When they did, Taco Bell was its own division and profit-and-loss was managed at the store level or you didn't have a job anymore. I know what the numbers were. We wouldn't have been making money if we hadn't done that.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:54 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
I hope you moved for better opportunities.
I moved for opportunities, period. There are people down there who have worked at jobs for 10 years and are still making 8-something.

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Old 06-21-2006, 10:56 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by listopencil
Actually Pepsi hasn't owned Taco Bell for a while now. When they did, Taco Bell was its own division and profit-and-loss was managed at the store level or you didn't have a job anymore. I know what the numbers were. We wouldn't have been making money if we hadn't done that.
My point still remains. The economy might recieve a bump in the bottom line of a lot of prices, but it puts money in the hands of those who need it.

In all, it helps closen the gap between the haves and havenots, which in this country is greatly needed.

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Old 06-21-2006, 10:56 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moooo
I lived in a town in southern Missouri just on the border of Arkansas. We were 30 minutes away from a Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Movie Theater, etc...

Moooo
Are we talking about while you were growing up or as an adult trying to live on your own? Honestly, if it is the latter, you needed to move where there were more opportunities. I understand a little more where that one boss got her attitude. Things in towns and cities is much different because you have to compete to get employees, not the other way around as it appears you were dealing with.

This has been a great discussion and I will certainly return to it tomorrow but I get to go home from my job now and see my family (those not already asleep).
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:57 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moooo
I lived in a town in southern Missouri just on the border of Arkansas. We were 30 minutes away from a Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Movie Theater, etc...

Moooo
I just know from experience that most employers don't have the luxury of treating good employees in the manner that you portray. No matter where you go in this country, the number 1 problem business owners will tell you they face is "finding quality help".

Cheap help hasn't been a consideration for a long time. It's good help. Granted there are always limits on the wages that are practical for a particular job, but 99% of employers still recognize that good help is worth the occasional pay raise.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:59 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by jspchief
I just know from experience that most employers don't have the luxury of treating good employees in the manner that you portray. No matter where you go in this country, the number 1 problem business owners will tell you they face is "finding quality help".
..and young quality help is even harder.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:00 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moooo
My point still remains. The economy might recieve a bump in the bottom line of a lot of prices, but it puts money in the hands of those who need it.

In all, it helps closen the gap between the haves and havenots, which in this country is greatly needed.

Moooo
Raised labor costs are going to get passed to the consumer.

You can bitch about greedy CEOs and business owners, but the fact remains they are going to maintain their profit margin. A raised minimum wage isn't going to make them any less greedy.

It does little good to put an extra $20 in the hands of the little guy if doing so makes his cost of living go up by $21.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:01 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by jspchief
I just know from experience that most employers don't have the luxury of treating good employees in the manner that you portray. No matter where you go in this country, the number 1 problem business owners will tell you they face is "finding quality help".

Cheap help hasn't been a consideration for a long time. It's good help. Granted there are always limits on the wages that are practical for a particular job, but 99% of employers still recognize that good help is worth the occasional pay raise.
Only certain people equate money made to how well they do their job. Some people will do the same work when getting paid 5 as they do 10.

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Old 06-21-2006, 11:03 PM   #89
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I've owned a construction company for 10 years. I'll guarantee there isn't a single illegal being paid "third world wages" on any construction site in the state of Iowa, or for that matter anywhere in the midwest. Nor is it happening at hog lots or hotel housekeeping departments.

Are some of them being paid less than typical wage? Yes. "Far" less? No.

I think you'd be suprised at how much employers appreciate the work that those Mexicans put in. The money that is being saved by using them isn't in the wages that are being paid.
And yet, there are still families living 10 to a home with dirt floors in said town

Edit: Third World was a bit of a misnomer b/c it harkens up images of 15 cents/day. However, I guarantee that the Mexicans at PSF are making quite a bit less than the whites there.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:04 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief
Raised labor costs are going to get passed to the consumer.

You can bitch about greedy CEOs and business owners, but the fact remains they are going to maintain their profit margin. A raised minimum wage isn't going to make them any less greedy.

It does little good to put an extra $20 in the hands of the little guy if doing so makes his cost of living go up by $21.


Yep, that's the real point here.
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