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Old 06-21-2006, 05:27 PM  
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The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage

If we raise the minimum wage are we only increasing the prevailing wage of the illegal immigrants?

Sounds very democratic to me.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage, rejecting an election-year proposal from Democrats for the first increase in nearly a decade.


The vote was 52-46, eight short of the 60 needed.


"I don't think the Republicans get it," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy,
D-Massachusetts, who backed a proposal for a three-step increase in the current wage floor to $7.25 an hour. The federal minimum wage has been fixed at $5.15 an hour since 1997.


Republican critics said the minimum wage was a job killer, not the boon to low-wage workers portrayed by Democrats.


"This is a classic debate between two different philosophies. One
philosophy believes in the marketplace, competition and entrepreneurship, and the second is a philosophy that says government knows best," said Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Georgia. He said France and Germany have high minimum wages but also high unemployment.


But Kennedy and other advocates of an increase said minimum wage workers have been without a raise since 1997.


Underscoring the political context of the debate, he said if Democrats win the Senate this November, a minimum wage increase will be one of the first pieces of legislation to be considered.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:17 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by dirk digler
I graduated college and went to work for the local sheriff's office as a deputy making $6 an hour while supporting my wife going to college and raising a newborn. I brought home $920 a month. Could you live on $920 a month?
When was this?
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:19 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
No most businesses in America are small businesses.
If a complahy did not make money, you wouldn't even have a job....you better hope they make money. I doubt big business is hurt as much as small business with such legislation.
You missed my whole post explaining this. And although there may be more businesses that are small, the percentage of jobs leans towards big business.

Those hit will not be businesses at all. They will compensate with raising their product or service rates. The ones hit will be the consumer, but as I said before, the benefit of 5-10% of the population will be absorbed by distributing it over everyone. Its the higher-working, middle, and upper class taking a hit for the little guy.

As I said before, if you don't like the idea of this, that's fine, but don't go around saying it won't work.

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Old 06-21-2006, 11:19 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler
I graduated college and went to work for the local sheriff's office as a deputy making $6 an hour while supporting my wife going to college and raising a newborn. I brought home $920 a month. Could you live on $920 a month?

Luckily now I have 2 college degrees and I make good money but those were some rough ****ing times.
I could find 10 jobs tommorrow that pay more than $920 a month.

But more to the point, how long did you have to work for $6 per hour before you got a raise, promotion, or found a better job? Almost everyone has to start at the bottom. My contention is with the notion that people are forced to wallow at the bottom for their entire lives.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:20 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil
When was this?
8 years ago.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:23 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moooo
As I said before, if you don't like the idea of this, that's fine, but don't go around saying it won't work.
I'll say whatever I like thank you. I already know such things do not work and won't work miracles for anyone who doesn't find a way out of even having to rely on min wage work for a lifetime. But I'm not about to re-educate someone in basic economics either.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:23 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler
8 years ago.

That's pretty rough, but it would have beeen easier if you hadn't had a wife and a newborn. I know you can't really plan these things. Hell, I've got four kids and the same thing applies to me now. But If I was alone then yes, I could have lived off of $920 a month eight years ago. I probably would have gotten another job on the side.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:25 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief
I could find 10 jobs tommorrow that pay more than $920 a month.

But more to the point, how long did you have to work for $6 per hour before you got a raise, promotion, or found a better job? Almost everyone has to start at the bottom. My contention is with the notion that people are forced to wallow at the bottom for their entire lives.
The point of taking the job was so my wife could finish her degree, we would have relatives that were able to watch our daughter, and plus I had a CJ degree and this was supposed to be the start of my Law enforcement career.

The 3 years I was there the county rejected all raises.

The point I was making is that it is damn near impossible to survive on minimum wage especially when you are trying to raise a family.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:26 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moooo
And please define, "loser." Its a very vague term.

Moooo
IMO there is a percentage of the American workforce that consists solely of losers. I'm not talking about people that can't work due to disability, illness, etc. I'm talking about the people that hop from job to job, every year or two (or less), never quite understanding that there's more to a job than punching in and punching out. They're the guys that are 35 years old, and are still filling out applications that have a work history that resembles an 18 year old's.

They are deadbeats. They either can't follow rules, can't get along with coworkers, can't show up regularly, can't stay off drugs, or any collection of the criteria combined. These people are the reason illegals are getting jobs. It's better to break the law and pay an illegal that works hard, than waste another 6 months training a deadbeat that will be filling out another app in 7 months.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:26 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief
I could find 10 jobs tommorrow that pay more than $920 a month.

But more to the point, how long did you have to work for $6 per hour before you got a raise, promotion, or found a better job? Almost everyone has to start at the bottom. My contention is with the notion that people are forced to wallow at the bottom for their entire lives.

Even in my dinky little town there are three jobs that start at $9, $12 and $14 within comfy driving distance right off the top of my head. Not everyone can do it, though. You have to work hard and pass a drug test. That rules a lot of people out. Then again, that's part of what you were referring to as the loser segment of the country.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:29 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler
The point I was making is that it is damn near impossible to survive on minimum wage especially when you are trying to raise a family.

Yep. But I don't think it is the Federal governments place to mandate that everyone has to be paid enough to raise a family.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:30 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler
The point I was making is that it is damn near impossible to survive on minimum wage especially when you are trying to raise a family.
...while putting one parent through college.

Your situation was predicated by a number of choices that included raising a family, allowing your spouse to finish college, and you getting your foot in the door of what you thought your future career was.

I think those other factors are notable.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:32 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by jspchief
It's reality bub. If you think the greedy business owners are suddenly going to become less greedy, you're living in candyland. Welcome to the world of capitalism.
Which is bullshit, IMHO.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:35 PM   #118
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Which is bullshit, IMHO.
Well, I hope you never have success in your professional life then. Because that's what it's about.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:35 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil
Yep. But I don't think it is the Federal governments place to mandate that everyone has to be paid enough to raise a family.
But I do think they should mandate a higher minimum wage because IIRC the poverty level is at the highest level in history.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:36 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
Which is bullshit, IMHO.
Does the "H" stand for "Humble" or "Hamas?"
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