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Old 06-21-2006, 05:27 PM  
Chiefs Minor Satellite Chiefs Minor Satellite is offline
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The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage

If we raise the minimum wage are we only increasing the prevailing wage of the illegal immigrants?

Sounds very democratic to me.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage, rejecting an election-year proposal from Democrats for the first increase in nearly a decade.


The vote was 52-46, eight short of the 60 needed.


"I don't think the Republicans get it," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy,
D-Massachusetts, who backed a proposal for a three-step increase in the current wage floor to $7.25 an hour. The federal minimum wage has been fixed at $5.15 an hour since 1997.


Republican critics said the minimum wage was a job killer, not the boon to low-wage workers portrayed by Democrats.


"This is a classic debate between two different philosophies. One
philosophy believes in the marketplace, competition and entrepreneurship, and the second is a philosophy that says government knows best," said Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Georgia. He said France and Germany have high minimum wages but also high unemployment.


But Kennedy and other advocates of an increase said minimum wage workers have been without a raise since 1997.


Underscoring the political context of the debate, he said if Democrats win the Senate this November, a minimum wage increase will be one of the first pieces of legislation to be considered.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:39 PM   #121
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None of you are addressing my point.

Come up with whatever excuse you will, but minimum wage will succeed in increasing the standard of living for the lower class. Its benefit will be absorbed throughout the economy, meaning the people who will see a negative effect are the middle and upper class.

If you guys don't think this is right, then that's an opinion, but please don't go around saying its not going to work.

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Old 06-21-2006, 11:40 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief
...while putting one parent through college.

Your situation was predicated by a number of choices that included raising a family, allowing your spouse to finish college, and you getting your foot in the door of what you thought your future career was.

I think those other factors are notable.
I agree that we had choices and maybe we didn't make the right choices because we did get divorced and we fought alot about money. I look back and think I really don't understand why we fought over money because we didn't have any to fight over.

But just think about the single African-Amercian woman raising her 2 kids alone, because the father was a deadbeat loser and left her, all the while making minimum wage. It is almost depressing.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:40 PM   #123
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of course they did .......


now if it was for giving every millionaire another free million they'd be all for it.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:42 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler
I agree that we had choices and maybe we didn't make the right choices because we did get divorced and we fought alot about money. I look back and think I really don't understand why we fought over money because we didn't have any to fight over.

But just think about the single African-Amercian woman raising her 2 kids, because the father was a deadbeat, all the while making minimum wage. It is almost depressing.
I think if that single woman shows up to work everyday and works hard, she won't be working for minimum wage forever.

And that's ignoring that fact that she went out and had two kids that she couldn't afford.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:46 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler
I agree that we had choices and maybe we didn't make the right choices because we did get divorced and we fought alot about money. I look back and think I really don't understand why we fought over money because we didn't have any to fight over.
That is hard. When our money has gotten tight we fight more as well. Every little purchase that the other one makes that isn't absolutely necessary reminds you of every time you've gone without.

Quote:
But just think about the single African-Amercian woman raising her 2 kids, because the father was a deadbeat, all the while making minimum wage. It is almost depressing.

I'm all for hard ass legislation designed to make sperm donors (I don't consider them worthy of the title "Father") pay for their offspring. That situation is what our Welfare System is designed for. I don't mind my taxes going to provide childcare and training for these ladies at all.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:46 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moooo
None of you are addressing my point.

Come up with whatever excuse you will, but minimum wage will succeed in increasing the standard of living for the lower class. Its benefit will be absorbed throughout the economy, meaning the people who will see a negative effect are the middle and upper class.

If you guys don't think this is right, then that's an opinion, but please don't go around saying its not going to work.

Moooo
I'll put it this way. I don't have any desire to make less so someone else can make more. Just because I worked my way up to middle class, I don't need the government to legislate socialism because some other deadbeat is incapable of doing the same thing. I'll readily admit that I'm greedy that way, and it's certainly a reason I don't agree with a minimum wage hike.

but I also don't think it will have any effect on the standard of living for the lower class. The bottom of the market is set by how much the poorest can afford. If the poorest can afford a little more, us greedy bastards are just going to raise the market as much as we can get away with.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:52 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief
I don't need the government to legislate socialism...

I know what you mean and I agree with you but I don't see socialism being legislated out of our government any time soon. If they are going to steal my money at least give it to someone who can use it as a helping hand into a better life.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:52 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief
I'll put it this way. I don't have any desire to make less so someone else can make more. Just because I worked my way up to middle class, I don't need the government to legislate socialism because some other deadbeat is incapable of doing the same thing. I'll readily admit that I'm greedy that way, and it's certainly a reason I don't agree with a minimum wage hike.

but I also don't think it will have any effect on the standard of living for the lower class. The bottom of the market is set by how much the poorest can afford. If the poorest can afford a little more, us greedy bastards are just going to raise the market as much as we can get away with.
THANK YOU for cutting through the crap and saying it how it is. I disagree on your last half, though, as many things are priced out of market for the poorest, cause businesses know instead of appealing to 100% of the market and charging 100%, they can get more for a product by appealing to the top 75% of the market and charging 200%.

Think of what a person who is truely poor can really afford, and you'll see what I mean. Other than food and other small luxuries, there's really nothing they can go for. It sure isn't going to affect the price of Cars or a Cell Phone, or even fast food.

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Old 06-21-2006, 11:53 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief
I think if that single woman shows up to work everyday and works hard, she won't be working for minimum wage forever.

And that's ignoring that fact that she went out and had two kids that she couldn't afford.
I agree.

jsp, sometimes in life shit happens and what if they were married but he cheated on her and then left her? Is that her fault? Of course not but it happens every day. Now instead of 2 incomes she has 1 minimum wage job and supporting 2 kids.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:54 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Moooo
I lived in a town in southern Missouri just on the border of Arkansas. We were 30 minutes away from a Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Movie Theater, etc... We were also about 90 miles away from a Mall or Best Buy or anything like that.

Then I moved to Springfield, where the going rate for most jobs is about 6-7.

Moooo

Is there a Wal Mart Distribution Center within a 45 minute drive of you?
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:56 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil
I know what you mean and I agree with you but I don't see socialism being legislated out of our government any time soon. If they are going to steal my money at least give it to someone who can use it as a helping hand into a better life.
I understand your sentiment, but a lof of socialism is for the middle-class...and socialism makes more people poorer. I'd rather we have policies that lead to more wealth creation.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:56 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by listopencil
Is there a Wal Mart Distribution Center within a 45 minute drive of you?
I don't know what you're talking about. There's a Sam's down the road...

Where I was there was NOTHING. There wasn't even a stoplight in the entire COUNTY I lived in. And you could get more for a job, about 50 cents an hour more. But considering I could only work 5 hour shifts after school and it cost 4 bucks to get down there and back, this route was better.

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Old 06-22-2006, 12:01 AM   #133
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I understand your sentiment, but a lof of socialism is for the middle-class...and socialism makes more people poorer. I'd rather we have policies that lead to more wealth creation.
I agree. I'd rather do without it but I don't see it going away.
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:03 AM   #134
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Two things I found suprising about this proposal. The substantial increase suggested and how how many votes it actually recieved.
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:11 AM   #135
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I don't know what you're talking about. There's a Sam's down the road...

Wal-Mart has a huge footprint in Missouri. I think there are two DC's (warehouses) there. That's the starting at $12/hour job I was referring to that would require hard work and clean urine. Within three years you would be making close to $20/hour if you wanted to. I wonder how far you are from one of them?
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