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Old 12-06-2000, 11:07 AM  
58Forever 58Forever is offline
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****ing A.....

What is it that drives us to want victory above all else?...

Why do I feel like my guts are torn out when the Chiefs lose?...

In another thread someone said that we as fans would never love the game of football as much as the players...bull ****...we may love it more...or at least as much...

just waxing philosophic.... :confused:



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Old 12-06-2000, 11:21 AM   #2
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I've never wanted to 'win at all costs.' but I've always wanted maximum effort. And I'm not just talking about leaping to catch one certain pass, or powering through blocks on one certain play. I'm talking about from off-season workouts, through TC, into the season, with the mindset that success is the only measure. Building upon each success and learning from each failure. Never the same mistake twice.
We've gone from a team that wrung the most out of limited talent, to a team that squanders a great deal more talent.
In early '90's, you got the sense that DT and Schott willed the team to greatness. That will has not left per se, but I think it is a hoarse street-corner prophet, as opposed to the 'word of God' DT and Schott imposed.

[This message has been edited by JC-Johnny (edited 12-06-2000).]
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Old 12-06-2000, 11:27 AM   #3
58Forever 58Forever is offline
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JC, in general though...the mentality of the day is win, win, win...

Ever watch a little league baseball, soccer or football game...the kids are having fun...the parents and coaches are killing each other...

I saw a video of a Pop Warner game...this little 7 year old kid intercepts a pass and is going for a TD when the coach of the opposing team, a grown man, comes off the sidelines and levels the little kid...it was really sad...

When it was a game...before the almighty dollar ruined it...now if you don't win you don't make money...

I feel very cynical today.

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Old 12-06-2000, 11:35 AM   #4
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I don't dispute that that mentality is out there and is spoiling a lot of sports. But I do dispute that that mentality has anything to do with the Chiefs' here and now.
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Old 12-06-2000, 11:43 AM   #5
58Forever 58Forever is offline
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JC, I'm not saying that at all...actually it's the lack of that desire that is fueling the Chiefs right now...

I guess what I'm saying and I'm just feeling really introspective today...is why is winning so important?....why can't we just be happy with the contest?....the game is great...sometimes I wish I didn't have a favorite team and I could just watch football because I love football...but when the Chiefs lose, I'm so depressed that anything football reminds me of the Chiefs and that makes me more depressed...yes of course I still watch every game...yes, I always will...
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Old 12-06-2000, 11:52 AM   #6
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I think its pretty inborne to seek to meet goals. It not that winning is everything EXACTLY, but that winning is the goal of a contest and we feel better when goals are met.
Ever just mindlessly throw rocks? Pretty soon, you're aiming for stuff, congratulating your self when you hit it. trying different arcs and approaches [granny-style, sidearm, velocity, etc].
Some people don't feel right until the house work is done, dishes put away, etc. Even if you know there will be no repurcussions, getting stuck in traffic, making you late for a meeting, puts you on edge. It all comes from the same place, wanting to meet your goals.
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Old 12-06-2000, 11:55 AM   #7
58Forever 58Forever is offline
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But at what price?...sometimes I wonder if it's worth it...

I just want to love the game as i did as a child...when every team was my favorite team...when the only goal I had was to be able to watch 2 football teams play on a sunday...
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Old 12-06-2000, 12:10 PM   #8
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I disagree, for the most part I think the accomplishment aspect gives it worth, rather than operating as a cost.
The baseball and basketball seasons comprise approximately a bajillion games. Too many to make fandom possible without something at stake. A team can go on a 3 cajillion game losing streak and still be in contention.
I've been to about 40-50 Cards games in the past 6-7 years, and for all the talk of the 'crack of the bat' and the 'smell of hot dogs and popcorn' they all meld into background noise after a while, except when they're in the playoff hunt or McGwire is chasing history.
I think the rock throwing example epitomizes how deeply ingrained this is. Everything we do is eventually demarkated by degrees of accomplishment or failure. Some push it too far, turning everything into a breakneck contest [I'm reminded of the 'racing rental cars scene in 'Days of Thunder']. But if success or failure doesn't matter, its not worth doing. Even playing catch with someone. Sure, its mostly mindless. But how long would you play catch with someone who never ever EVER caught the ball without so much as giving a pointer or two?
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Old 12-06-2000, 12:44 PM   #9
58Forever 58Forever is offline
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I'm really not disagreeing with you...I just wish it wasn't the way it is...

Look at the Yankees...they win 3 of the last 4 WS so what do they do...they go out and get one of the best pithers in baseball, Messina, from Baltimore so they can win again...

It's sad but so true, everyone loves a winner....

Fortunately for us...wether the Chiefs win or lose...we will love them...
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Old 12-06-2000, 12:49 PM   #10
HC_Chief HC_Chief is offline
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I'm starting to think this town is 99% filled with masochists. If you cheer for this suck-*** team, you pretty much [i]have[/i] to have a sense of self-loathing and doubt.
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Old 12-06-2000, 12:54 PM   #11
Mi_chief_fan Mi_chief_fan is offline
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Someone said something about "maximum effort," and I believe fans are [i] entitled [/i] to at least that. Just look at the cost of a game ticket these days.

The parent that tackled the little kid truly needs help; however, I hope a bunch of large, angry bikers got to him before the police.
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Old 12-06-2000, 12:59 PM   #12
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Joe, I hope that you're exaggerating and that the Chiefs losing a football game doesn't depress you that much! I've been a Chiefs fan since birth and since I moved to LA 6 years ago, I haven't missed one game on TV and have gone to San Diego to watch the games, but have NEVER been depressed after a loss. It's just a game. And it's a game that we WATCH, we don't play. The only reason these guys make so much money is because of TV, not fans in the stands and they shouldn't be put on a pedestal for anything they do on the field. I want the best for the Chiefs because they're my favorite team (and the best would be to lose out, clean house and bring in a young, bright, driven Head Coach and staff to go along with our collection of talent and new draft choices), but I never let it affect my personal life or my life after the game is over. Winning in any sport is all that matters to the players and coaches, but as a guy who loves football and the Chiefs, I don't need the Chiefs to win to validate my life or favorite city. It's just a great way to kill 3 1/2 hours for 20 weeks. But it is nothing to be depressed over. EVER.

[This message has been edited by DaneMcCloud (edited 12-06-2000).]
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Old 12-06-2000, 01:09 PM   #13
Raiderhader Raiderhader is offline
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Dane, people can't help but be a little down after thier team loses. Think about how much emotion fans put into a game. You are cheering your heart out, hoping so hard that it hurts, because you want your team to win so bad. You are bound to have an emotional let down if they should lose. I get a little depressed when my team loses, but like you I don't let it run my life. But it is a very natural feeling and reaction.
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Old 12-06-2000, 01:13 PM   #14
Mark M Mark M is offline
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58--
I have to agree and disagree with you.

I agree that the emphasis on winning is way out of control. I was a LL baseball ref for a total of three games. The kids had their coach pitch to them, and half of the kids didn't know what base to run towards. But the kids had fun . . . until the parents and coaches started to yell at them. I had some lady rip me for calling her son out (which he was). I told her "I'm sorry, but he missed the base and was tagged." She had to be held back by her husband who had this "Why did I marry this psycho b!tch?" look on his face. Very, very sad. It was my last game.

But while winning isn't everything, there is a reason they keep score: to see who was the best on that particular day. It's human nature to want to be the Alpha male/female in the pack. But instead of clubbing each other as we did pre-modern-man (except for in Oakland, where neanderthals still rule) we have sport to do it for us. Whether it is the native americans playing lacrosse with the heads of their enemies or current americans playing football with an inflated bladder (which they used to use), the goal is the same: to prove you and yours are the best.

I just think that comes before everything else, sometimes. And that is what is so sad.

MM
~~Believes in sportsmanship over victory.

[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 12-06-2000).]
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Old 12-06-2000, 01:16 PM   #15
58Forever 58Forever is offline
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Dane, I'm exaggerating only slightly...I put all my energy into the Chiefs games and when they lose I feel like ****...depressed?...yep..not suicidal of course, but let down....I'm getting better though...I've decided too, like you stated, that it is just a game and there is nothing I can do to affect the outcome...I don't play, I don't coach all I can do is cheer...

So for the past few weeks, I've resorted to not watching the game live....I record it...if they win...great...I watch...if they lose, I don't have to watch it and I didn't have to go through the agony of watching it live...in and of itself this is sick...but it's my way of dealing with this unhealthy obsession I have with the Chiefs...

With that said...I will always be a Chiefs fan and any loss or any win will have an effect on me...

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"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst

[This message has been edited by 58Forever (edited 12-06-2000).]
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