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View Poll Results: If you had to choose only one of these, which would it be?
Democracy 20 35.09%
Free market capitalism 37 64.91%
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Old 02-06-2007, 03:03 PM  
jAZ jAZ is offline
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If you were forced to choose between democray and free market capitalism...

... which would it be?

I know it may seem like an odd juxtaposition of beliefs that in this country typically go hand in hand... but I've noticed a trend in discussions lately that caused me to consider the question in this way.

Seems like an interesting discussion.

If you were forced to choose between living in a society defined by democracy (but for instance, the people voted for communism/socialism) or one defined by capitalism (but public policy is dictated by an autocratic government) which would you choose and why?
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:57 AM   #31
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Nightwish View Post
What is "democray?"
Marx said it was the road to socialism. From what I can see, it appears to be true.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:58 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by jAZ View Post
I'm pretty sure that Rand Paul was speaking of Representative Republic when he said "democracy" since that's what "Gave Us Jim Crow".

So for the purpose of this discussion, they are interchangeable terms.
Actually they are not interchangeable. Only in that they have elections. Democracy is majority rule aka mob rule and most will vote to take away the property of others.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:03 AM   #33
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This poll is interesting because I didn't remember ever seeing Cochise and Loochy in the same place. I'm still trying to figure out who Cochise came back as.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:13 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ View Post
I'm pretty sure that Rand Paul was speaking of Representative Republic when he said "democracy" since that's what "Gave Us Jim Crow".

So for the purpose of this discussion, they are interchangeable terms.
Free market capitalism is more important than democracy or representative republic... if you like freedom, at least.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:03 PM   #35
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OK this is the second time in as many weeks an old thread got bumped by a moonbat, and NOT ONE MOONBAT CRIED AND ASKED THAT THE PERSON WHO BUMPED IT BE BANNED.

Just putting it out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ View Post
Note: I don't post here anymore, and I don't intend to return, so don't get too annoyed by my bumping this thread, but I never anticipated such a notable comment from a politician related to a past discussion on this board. So I come back just for a very brief bump.
--

I saw this article and I thought of this discussion and several others I've had here over there years.

There is a anti-democracy vein of thought within the libertarian, free-market community. It gets down to the self vs the community.

Democracy is directly opposed to the self any time you don't like the choices of the majority (some may be good choices, others might be terrible choices).

But this is the first time I've seen a politician pull the rug back on this anti-democracy view, even a little.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...r-in-democracy
Rand Paul: ‘I’m Not A Firm Believer In Democracy…It Gave Us Jim Crow’
PERRY STEIN 11:45 AM EDT, MONDAY JUNE 17, 2013

The New Republic's Julia Ioffe has a big profile with quite the cover photo on 2016 hopeful and Tea Party favorite Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) that went online Monday.

Ioffe reports on a little publicized remark Paul made at Simmons College, a historically black college in Louisville, where Paul sat with students and professors.

"I'm not a firm believer in democracy," he said in April. "It gave us Jim Crow."

Here's the quote in its full context:
And rather than try to prove that the Republican Party had been good to blacks once upon a time, he focused on how the Republican Party could be good to them today. He talked about decriminalizing drug offenses and getting rid of the mandatory sentencing minimums that put so many young black men in jail. He talked about fixing the local school system, about not abolishing Pell grants “as long as it’s in the context of spending what you have.” To approving nods, he talked about how urban renewal had really meant “urban destruction” and about how “they tore down a lot of black businesses so people would go to white stores.” He found that this crowd, if not totally convinced, was receptive. Though he would still not give them a definitive answer on his position on the Civil Rights Act, he did say that he believed federal intervention had been justified. “I’m not a firm believer in democracy,” he explained. “It gave us Jim Crow."
In 2010 Paul controversially said that he oppossed certain aspects of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, specifically the provision that prohibits private businesses from excluding anyone on the basis of race. He has since backed away from this comment.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Crapski View Post
OK this is the second time in as many weeks an old thread got bumped by a moonbat, and NOT ONE MOONBAT CRIED AND ASKED THAT THE PERSON WHO BUMPED IT BE BANNED.

Just putting it out there.
Yep. The double standard is pretty thick. There shouldn't be any outcry, but that's true when you do it too.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:47 PM   #37
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Originally Posted by Comrade Crapski View Post
OK this is the second time in as many weeks an old thread got bumped by a moonbat, and NOT ONE MOONBAT CRIED AND ASKED THAT THE PERSON WHO BUMPED IT BE BANNED.

Just putting it out there.
This was a relevant bump. There is nothing wrong with that.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:53 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Crapski View Post
OK this is the second time in as many weeks an old thread got bumped by a moonbat, and NOT ONE MOONBAT CRIED AND ASKED THAT THE PERSON WHO BUMPED IT BE BANNED.

Just putting it out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yep. The double standard is pretty thick. There shouldn't be any outcry, but that's true when you do it too.


Feel free to report jAZ when he bumps 30+ threads in the span of a few hours.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:56 PM   #39
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Actually they are not interchangeable. Only in that they have elections. Democracy is majority rule aka mob rule and most will vote to take away the property of others.
Yes, I know that. As I'm sure Rand Paul knew that when he chose to use "democracy" instead of "Representative Republic" since it was indeed a "Representative Republic" that "Gave Us Jim Crow".

What he should have said, in order to be precise was "democratically elected representative republic" but Rand shortened it. Now that we are all on the same semantic page, appreciating the key distinctions between representative democracy and outright democracy, can we dispense with the side-bars?

Democracy (in various flavors) is effectively antithetical at a root level to the fully free market capitalism because both are voting mechinisms.

To me they both serve purposes and should exist together in a mixed environment. But and I think most all people feel the same way.

I've just never heard anyone but message-board ranters outright question the institution of democracy so boldly.

I'm shocked, actually.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:59 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
This was a relevant bump. There is nothing wrong with that.
Comrade Crapski is criticized by people like bowser for relevant bumps.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:00 PM   #41
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When kOZ says "democracy" he means The German Democratic Republic.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:01 PM   #42
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post


Feel free to report jAZ when he bumps 30+ threads in the span of a few hours.
yeah I knew you'd be chiming in, you're the biggest rat fink in this place.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:02 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yep. The double standard is pretty thick. There shouldn't be any outcry, but that's true when you do it too.
FWIW,

A) CC was bumping old threads with posts that were totally unrelated to the OP (i.e. bumping a "teacher who loves Obama" thread with an article about a gay man who was assaulted)

B) jAZ said why he was bumping this (even though he didn't need to as his post was obviously related to the OP)

C) jAZ hasn't been doing this multiple times per day for a week.

It's not a double standard when these two's behavior is hardly similar.

Lastly, just as you said, there's outcry on both sides. When Direkshun & Wickedson post things the right doesn't like, there are those that shoot the messenger, same goes for idiots like CC & Pete.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:03 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post


Feel free to report jAZ when he bumps 30+ threads in the span of a few hours.
I feel like I did do that once and was rightly criticized for it. I don't remember why I did it, but it was annoying I'm sure. But truth be told, I'd be ok with being banned form this place. I rarely read and almost never post here.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:03 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Comrade Crapski View Post
yeah I knew you'd be chiming in, you're the biggest rat fink in this place.

Woops, I stand corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
FWIW,

A) CC was bumping old threads with posts that were totally unrelated to the OP (i.e. bumping a "teacher who loves Obama" thread with an article about a gay man who was assaulted)

B) jAZ said why he was bumping this (even though he didn't need to as his post was obviously related to the OP)

C) jAZ hasn't been doing this multiple times per day for a week.

It's not a double standard when these two's behavior is hardly similar.

Lastly, just as you said, there's outcry on both sides. When Direkshun & Wickedson post things the right doesn't like, there are those that shoot the messenger, same goes for idiots like CC & Pete.
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