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Old 04-23-2007, 09:40 AM  
Donger Donger is offline
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Gasoline at $4 Coming to a Pump Near You, Unfazed by Rising Tab

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=afOlUzd30YOo

Pretty alarmist, IMO, but possible.

Spoiler!

Last edited by Donger; 10-10-2014 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:00 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger
Okay, that's certainly possible. I've answered that question multiple times in many threads. I think I answered it in this thread, too.

* EDIT - Post 104

Correct. There two reasons why the oil companies haven't built one: profit and red tape. A new refinery would be a huge capital expense. Sure, they presently have the cash, but realizing a profit from a new refinery would take years. Also, our government has made building (let alone getting one approved) a refinery an extremely painful process. Environmental regulations, politics, etc. Instead, they have chosen to expand existing refineries to meet demand (and import refined gasoline).

Sorry, for some reason I thought you had asked it before.
Thank you for checking, and thanks for the answer.

After giving it some thought, here's what I think -

I really do understand Economics 101, and I can't blame a single person for wanting to make money. If I were in a similar position, I'd want as much as I could get as well. The thing I'm hung up on is the fact that there is no viable mass produced energy alternative to gasoline. Knowing this, I think that the petroleum business needs some sort of regulation and oversight. Gasoline has become a necessity to modern day life much like electricity, and should be somehow regulated. But certainly, we can and should all try to adjust our lives accordingly to ease the stress of higher prices at the pump. There are few other products we know of that can have such a ripple effect on our economy and daily lives than gasoline and its cost. As it stands now, it seems petroleum companies have carte blanche to do as they wish with the prices when they want.
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:08 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser
As it stands now, it seems petroleum companies have carte blanche to do as they wish with the prices when they want.
Thanks for your response.

However, I disagree about regulation. It was tried once before, and it was a VERY bad idea. Think about it: let's regulate pricing in the US on a product that is derived from a globally-traded commodity that we import a lot of... Don't forget that utilities generate their power mostly from coal, which we have plenty of. Besides, I'd rather there be no regulation of utilities either. But that's another discussion.

As to there not being an economically-viable alternative to gasoline, yes, that's true. There isn't. Gasoline is still, BY FAR, the most energy efficient and inexpensive method of powering our cars. Until that changes, I fear that the impetus to find the alternative will not happen.

And, to a certain extent, the oil companies ARE already regulated. Look at how many times the FTC has investigated (and I mean THOROUGHLY) them and found NO evidence of gouging or price fixing. None. They don't just pull a number out of their asses and "stick it to us." That's why I always bring up their profit margin. It varies between 8% and 10% That's not "excessive," IMO. The fact that their PM stays relatively constant tells me that aren't just raising prices "because they can."

I understand your frustration, but I'm still enough of a capitalist to accept that the oil companies are going to make profits when they can.
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Last edited by Donger; 05-13-2007 at 05:13 PM..
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:27 PM   #213
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I'm just glad diesel is 30 cents cheaper per gallon than regular. I may be keeping my big truck afterall.
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Old 05-13-2007, 06:02 PM   #214
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Old 05-13-2007, 06:09 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler
If I was a terrorist that would be the first place I would attempt to strike
i dunno...

just off the top of my head i would think that a nuclear power plant would make the best target...

even if the terrorists don't succeed in their attack, they still will have demonstrated that they can reach that kind of target and have the capacity to attack other nuclear plants as well...

forcing us to spend more billions "hardening" all the nuke plants...

just like we spent billions on airport security after we were attacked with our own planes on 9/11...
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Old 05-13-2007, 06:22 PM   #216
Donger Donger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bo
i dunno...

just off the top of my head i would think that a nuclear power plant would make the best target...

even if the terrorists don't succeed in their attack, they still will have demonstrated that they can reach that kind of target and have the capacity to attack other nuclear plants as well...

forcing us to spend more billions "hardening" all the nuke plants...

just like we spent billions on airport security after we were attacked with our own planes on 9/11...
Gasoline and diesel refineries are much softer targets. Containment vessels at our nuclear plants are, well, rather strong.
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Old 05-13-2007, 07:18 PM   #217
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you're right about refineries being softer targets and attacks on them would no doubt have a significant impact on our whole economy...

i guess i was referring to the "terror" part of terrorists' activities...

even though there might be neglible effect on a nuclear plant (because of the containment vessel), the mere fact that the terrrorists can reach those targets would cause us ordinary people a lot of worry about a potental release of radiation from damaged nuclear plants...

other targets make cause greater damage to the ecomony, but the fear of radiation contamination on a widespread scale causes a lot more, well terror, if you will...
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Old 05-13-2007, 07:24 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bo
you're right about refineries being softer targets and attacks on them would no doubt have a significant impact on our whole economy...

i guess i was referring to the "terror" part of terrorists' activities...

even though there might be neglible effect on a nuclear plant (because of the containment vessel), the mere fact that the terrrorists can reach those targets would cause us ordinary people a lot of worry about a potental release of radiation from damaged nuclear plants...

other targets make cause greater damage to the ecomony, but the fear of radiation contamination on a widespread scale causes a lot more, well terror, if you will...
Dumb, panicky animal syndrome?

It's virtually impossible to create a Chernobyl-like disaster in the United States, even intentionally. Our plants are vastly superior with regards to design and engineering.
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:20 AM   #219
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I only mention their profit margin when someone brings up oil company profits. It's just a fact. Sure, when they make a profit, it's huge because of the size of the market (you and me and everyone else that buys gasoline). But, there are plenty of other industries out there that make vastly higher PM.

I realize that high gasoline prices have an effect on most prices, thanks. Should the oil companies be selling gasoline below cost?
I don't care about other industries profit margin, mmmkay?. Maybe you didn't understand that in my previous post. No other industry has such a negative effect on the economy than the oil industry with rising prices.

They have a long ways to go before they sell it below cost. About 125B worth before they hit that point from last year alone.
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:05 AM   #220
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I think it is different when it is a utility company, and oil companies fit into that IMO.

I would also say that they have no real competition, because obviously the price in one company isn't holding down the price in the others, like what happened to long distance telephone companies in the 90's.
Really, because you only have a Conoco gas pipe running to your house? Congress would love nothing more than to prove the oil companies are colluding but they just can't seem to find any evidence.
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:11 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Saggysack
I don't care about other industries profit margin, mmmkay?. Maybe you didn't understand that in my previous post. No other industry has such a negative effect on the economy than the oil industry with rising prices.


Put a couple of the oil companies out of business and see what happens to the price, dumbass.
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:22 AM   #222
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Put a couple of the oil companies out of business and see what happens to the price, dumbass.



Last I looked, 125 Billion in profits doesn't put anybody out of business, dumbass.
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:11 AM   #223
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Last I looked, 125 Billion in profits doesn't put anybody out of business, dumbass.
Have you bothered to calculate their EXPENSES there Mr. "Oh their profits are high"? Yes, their profits are high, but at 10% margin their risk is astronomical.

Nobody else moves nearly as much product. Nobody else has so many eggs in one high risk basket. With incredibly slim margins like that all it takes is one bad day and they're in the red for months.

Once again, if this is such a lucrative deal and you're being f**ked so hardcore, go buy some stock and quit bitching.
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:55 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saggysack
I don't care about other industries profit margin, mmmkay?. Maybe you didn't understand that in my previous post. No other industry has such a negative effect on the economy than the oil industry with rising prices.

They have a long ways to go before they sell it below cost. About 125B worth before they hit that point from last year alone.
Well, you should. How else can you judge the oil companies relative to other industries?

And, if you cared about profit margin, you'd know that, no, they don't have a long ways to go before they sell it below cost. Only about 10%
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:32 AM   #225
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What drives me nuts is the inconsistency in prices throughout a city. Topeka is not very large and yet we will see $3.09 in one part of town and $3.39 just a few miles away for the same grade. If this were LA or NY or even KC I wouldn't say much about it but TOPEKA? I would think all the stations would be able to stay within say 10 cents of each other.
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