Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-23-2007, 08:40 AM  
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675 N 106.475 W
Casino cash: $185
VARSITY
Gasoline at $4 Coming to a Pump Near You, Unfazed by Rising Tab

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=afOlUzd30YOo

Pretty alarmist, IMO, but possible.

April 23 (Bloomberg) -- Whether it's $50 to fill up your Prius or $130 for the Ford Expedition, $4-a-gallon gasoline is coming to a pump near you.

Fuel prices are rising at a pace not seen since Hurricanes Katrina and Rita knocked out a third of the U.S. oil refining industry in 2005. Gasoline consumption is climbing twice as fast as last year and will accelerate when summer travel begins late next month.

``What we're surprised by is the increased demand,'' said James Mulva, chief executive officer at ConocoPhillips, whose refineries from California to New Jersey produce 56 million gallons of gas a day, enough to meet 14 percent of the country's needs. ``Even though the price of gasoline is up, the demand is up,'' he said in an April 12 interview in Houston.

Population gains and U.S. economic growth are causing an increase in fuel purchases, according to Orlando, Florida-based AAA, the nation's largest organization for motorists. The U.S. economy will expand at a 2.4 percent annual pace in the second quarter, up from 1.8 percent in the first three months, according to the median estimate of 74 economists surveyed by Bloomberg. Gasoline use is rising almost 5 percent above the five-year average.

Americans are resigned to higher prices, says David Pursell, a principal with Pickering Energy Partners, a consulting firm in Houston.

``Last year, we had pump prices well over $3 for the summer and gasoline demand was up,'' Pursell said in an interview. ``Would $4 gasoline cause demand contraction? I think it will, but I also thought $3 gasoline would.''

Pump Prices

Gasoline inventories, measured by the days of demand they will cover, are at the lowest level in two decades for this time of year because of refinery fires, power failures and maintenance work oil companies failed to complete in 2006. No new U.S. refinery has been built in three decades, increasing the strain on existing plants.

Pump prices in the U.S. may increase to $4 a gallon from a nationwide average of $2.87 today, especially if hurricanes threaten Gulf of Mexico refineries, says Peter Beutel, an analyst at Cameron Hanover Inc. in Stamford, Connecticut, who helps industrial consumers manage energy costs.

``Hurricanes are always the huge wild card,'' said Beutel. ``We're all praying for a year like 2006 rather than 2005.''

The June-to-November Atlantic Ocean hurricane season may produce 17 tropical storms, with nine reaching hurricane force and four becoming major hurricanes whose winds exceed 111 miles per hour (179 kilometers per hour), London-based forecasters at Tropical Storm Risk said. Some of the storms will strike the Gulf Coast this year after a benign 2006, AccuWeather.com predicted.

Inflation Risk

Higher pump prices will make winners of refinery owners such as ConocoPhillips, San Antonio-based Valero Energy Corp. and Royal Dutch Shell Plc of The Hague. Shares of Valero and Sunoco Inc., whose only business is refining, are rebounding after a decline at the end of last summer.

The increase in fuel costs threatens to quicken inflation and restrain consumer spending in the U.S. An appreciation to $4 a gallon would add more than $10 for a driver who fills the 12- gallon tank of a Toyota Motor Corp. Prius. The owner of an Expedition, a Ford Motor Co. sport-utility vehicle with a 34- gallon capacity, faces an increase of almost $40.

Many Americans have no choice but to drive more, says Christopher Knittel, an economist who studies fuel consumption at the University of California in Davis.

More Commuters

``We live farther from our jobs than we did in the 1970s, and with the rise of dual-income households, we now have two people who drive those distances every day,'' Knittel said.

Consumers also do more driving for things such as taking children to soccer practice, which they are unlikely to quit, he said. The U.S. population has increased 1 percent a year in the past decade to 301 million in 2007, adding to demand for gasoline, economists said.

Rising fuel prices make it less likely that Federal Reserve policy makers, who have cited inflation risks for the past year, will cut interest rates to spur economic growth. Before the hurricane-induced peak in 2005, U.S. gasoline topped out at $1.42 a gallon in March 1981, or $3.21 when adjusted for inflation, according to the Energy Department.

Economies in Europe and Asia are less likely to be hurt by gasoline prices because fuel already is subject to high taxes designed to encourage conservation. A gallon of unleaded costs about 3.25 pounds a gallon ($6.49) in the U.K., and in Japan it's 130.3 yen per liter ($4.16 a gallon).

$4 Barrier

U.S. consumers will get little relief on gasoline prices from Europe this year, unlike 2005, when oil companies shipped more across the Atlantic after the hurricanes. Europe's gasoline inventories in February were 114.2 million barrels, down 11 percent from two years earlier, according to the International Energy Agency in Paris. The drop in Europe was almost twice the 5.7 percent decline in U.S. supplies in that time.

``Just as we used to think $3 a gallon was an impenetrable barrier, now it's $4,'' said Peter Morici, a professor at the University of Maryland School of Business in College Park and former chief economist for the U.S. International Trade Commission. Gasoline at $3.50 is likely, Morici said, and a conflict with Iran or any event that disrupts crude supplies may push it to $4.

Pump prices rose 33 percent in the past 11 weeks, the fastest rate of gain since a six-week, 34 percent rally to the record $3.069 in September 2005, Energy Department data show.

Bodman's `Worry'

U.S. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman in an interview last week said the national average pump price could break the record this summer. While his agency's official forecast is for gasoline to peak next month at about where it is today, hurricanes, refinery closures or crude oil supply cuts may send prices higher, he said.

Higher prices are ``a legitimate worry,'' Bodman said. ``We have trouble spots all over the world'' that could boost crude oil prices. ``We're in a very tight situation.''

Spending on fuel in the U.S. consumes half as much household income as in the early 1980s, which means gasoline would need to reach almost $6 a gallon to have the same effect on the economy as in 1981, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

Storage tanks at U.S. refineries, terminals and ports hold enough gasoline to cover almost 22 days of domestic demand, 8.2 percent less than the five-year average and the lowest for this time of year since the 1980s, Energy Department figures show.

Shortages

Valero-owned filling stations in Denver and Colorado Springs, Colorado, ran dry after a Feb. 16 explosion and fire shut the company's McKee refinery in Sunray, Texas. A day earlier, a blaze at an Exxon Mobil Corp. plant in Nanticoke, Ontario, slashed output, resulting in shortages and higher prices across eastern Canada.

The McKee shutdown strained supplies so much that ConocoPhillips postponed maintenance at its Borger, Texas, refinery north of Amarillo to prevent shortages in the region.

``Refineries are becoming more complex,'' Mulva said in the Houston interview. ``What we're finding is it's more difficult keeping reliability up with more sophisticated pieces of equipment that are highly integrated.''

Tesoro Corp. of San Antonio, the second-largest refiner in the western U.S., said first-quarter refinery use dropped because oil companies delayed until this year maintenance that could have been done in 2006. The portion of U.S. refining capacity that was in operation in the first quarter declined to 87.3 percent from 88.9 percent a year earlier, according to Energy Department data.

`Refineries Blow Up'

``Prices will depend entirely on whether we have a couple of refineries blow up,'' said Philip K. Verleger, an economist who runs a consulting firm in Newport Beach, California. ``It's almost impossible we'll get to $4 a gallon if all the refineries run well this summer. But if something happens and there are problems, then anything's possible.''

The average share gain for Valero, Tesoro and six other oil-refining companies is 26 percent this year, outperforming the 4.1 percent gain for Exxon Mobil and a 4.7 percent increase for the Standard & Poor's 500 index.

The shares will continue to rally, said Paul Carlson, who helps manage $3 billion at HGK Asset Management in Jersey City, New Jersey.

``Refiners are doing very well these days,'' said Carlson, whose holdings include ConocoPhillips, the second-biggest U.S. refiner. ``There will be lots of demand for any new refining stocks.''

`Back in Favor'

As recently as August, investors were selling oil refiners on concern an economic slowdown would slash fuel demand in the U.S., the world's largest energy market. During seven weeks last August and September, Valero shares fell 29 percent, wiping out $12 billion in market value.

``Refining is very much back in favor,'' said Douglas Ober, who helps oversee $2.3 billion at Baltimore-based Adams Express Co. ``Even with higher prices, we haven't seen any substantial cutback in demand. They're cranking out as much of this stuff as they can, and we're throwing it in our tanks as fast as we can.''

The margin earned from processing crude oil into fuels rose to $24.68 a barrel on April 11, the highest since right after the hurricanes in September 2005. The margin has since retreated to $22.12 a barrel, still about double the five-year average.

``It'll be a fairly tight gasoline market all through the summer,'' said Robert Hinckley, an analyst at Rochdale Securities in New York.
Posts: 76,285
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:17 PM   #241
Simplex3 Simplex3 is offline
MVP
 
Simplex3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger
So, you are going to delay filling up by one day, not skip an entire fill-up? In other words, you aren't going to reduce your demand at all?
Wait! We can reduce cigarette prices by a solid $0.50 a pack if everyone just doesn't buy smokes for a day! That would work for milk too, right?

S**t, let's just all buy nothing for a day and the price of everything will go down!
Posts: 28,527
Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:18 PM   #242
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675 N 106.475 W
Casino cash: $185
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv
Eh, some of us prefer the cliff notes. I know I don't go all the way back and read all of long threads.
Are you serious?
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 76,285
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:21 PM   #243
luv luv is offline
Someday
 
luv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger
Are you serious?
I've stuck my foot in my mouth on several occasions by not doing so. I usually just go back until I've got an idea of what's going on. I may look like an idiot, but oh well.
__________________
It's never too late to become the person you were meant to be.
Posts: 59,639
luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:21 PM   #244
Simplex3 Simplex3 is offline
MVP
 
Simplex3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv
Eh, some of us prefer the cliff notes. I know I don't go all the way back and read all of long threads.
The Gas Out is dumb and won't work.

Govt controls are dumb and don't work.

Both ideas have no basis in any economic reality.
Posts: 28,527
Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:25 PM   #245
luv luv is offline
Someday
 
luv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplex3
The Gas Out is dumb and won't work.

Govt controls are dumb and don't work.

Both ideas have no basis in any economic reality.
I completely agree with you. 100%. Not buying something for a day has zero economic effect in the long run if the demand will still be there on another day.

I was simply saying that I, too, did not know that had already been discussed in the thread. I didn't go back to read the whole thing.
__________________
It's never too late to become the person you were meant to be.
Posts: 59,639
luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:30 PM   #246
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675 N 106.475 W
Casino cash: $185
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv
I've stuck my foot in my mouth on several occasions by not doing so. I usually just go back until I've got an idea of what's going on. I may look like an idiot, but oh well.
Okay.

Well, let's start with this one day gasoline boycott idea. The idea is to hurt the oil companies (I assume) by removing their revenue. Great. However, since it seems that tommykat is not talking about skipping a fill-up, but only delaying it by a day, all it does is delay the sale by a day, not remove it entirely. Therefore, it does nothing. They still sell the same amount of fuel = demand does not decrease at all. The volume is the same. Oh, and if we don't buy the oil to refine the gasoilne from, someone else will. It's a GLOBAL commodity.

Make sense?

Price controls were tried once before. Remember (for you, probably in the history books) the "No Gas" signs and long lines at the pump? That was during the time when 'price controls' were in effect. The oil companies were forced to produce product below their cost to produce it. So, what did they do? Cut back drastically their output to limit their losses = shortage.

The fact remains that while high, gasoline is still relatively inexpensive.
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 76,285
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:33 PM   #247
luv luv is offline
Someday
 
luv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger
Okay.

Well, let's start with this one day gasoline boycott idea. The idea is to hurt the oil companies (I assume) by removing their revenue. Great. However, since it seems that tommykat is not talking about skipping a fill-up, but only delaying it by a day, all it does is delay the sale by a day, not remove it entirely. Therefore, it does nothing. They still seel the same amount of fuel = demand does not decrease at all. The volume is the same.

Make sense?

Price controls were tried once before. Remember (for you, probably in the history books) the "No Gas" signs and long lines at the pump? That was during the time when 'price controls' were in effect. The oil companies were forced to produce product below their cost to produce it. So, what did they do? Cut back drastically their output to limit their losses = shortage.

The fact remains that while high, gasoline is still relatively inexpensive.
Like I said, I understand that. I simply had not read through the thread to know that had already been discussed.
__________________
It's never too late to become the person you were meant to be.
Posts: 59,639
luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:34 PM   #248
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675 N 106.475 W
Casino cash: $185
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv
Like I said, I understand that. I simply had not read through the thread to know that had already been discussed.
Oh. I thought you asked for the Cliff Notes version.
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 76,285
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:35 PM   #249
luv luv is offline
Someday
 
luv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger
Oh. I thought you asked for the Cliff Notes version.
Ineffective communication on my part.
__________________
It's never too late to become the person you were meant to be.
Posts: 59,639
luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:35 PM   #250
DenverChief DenverChief is online now
Lieutenant
 
DenverChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2001
Casino cash: $5220
I bought a bicycle...f**k the oil companies
__________________
2013 ADOPT-A-CHIEF FRANK ZOMBO

Posts: 10,536
DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:36 PM   #251
Simplex3 Simplex3 is offline
MVP
 
Simplex3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger
Oh. I thought you asked for the Cliff Notes version.
Actually, I think she's trying to get us (me) to soften up on TommyKat.
Posts: 28,527
Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:37 PM   #252
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675 N 106.475 W
Casino cash: $185
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv
Ineffective communication on my part.
Okay. Well, thanks for making me write all that.

I shall have to spank you.
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 76,285
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:37 PM   #253
DenverChief DenverChief is online now
Lieutenant
 
DenverChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2001
Casino cash: $5220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplex3
The Gas Out is dumb and won't work.

Govt controls are dumb and don't work.

Both ideas have no basis in any economic reality.
Actually I'd love to see the state gas tax eliminated and the federal gas tax slashed
__________________
2013 ADOPT-A-CHIEF FRANK ZOMBO

Posts: 10,536
DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.DenverChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:37 PM   #254
Simplex3 Simplex3 is offline
MVP
 
Simplex3's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverChief
I bought a bicycle...f**k the oil companies
No thanks on both counts.

Posts: 28,527
Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.Simplex3 would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 06:37 PM   #255
RJ RJ is offline
Bon vivant....occasionally.
 
RJ's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: In a shotgun shack
Casino cash: $5000
Please excuuuusse me if this question already came up, but.....

I've been reading, both in this thread and elsewhere, that the oil industry runs on about a 10% profit margin. What I'm wondering is, has that 10% margin been consistent over years or is that a recent number? The reason why I ask is that, obviously, if your margin is 10% then you'd rather be making 10% on an $80 barrell than 10% on a $40 barrel, assuming consumption stays the same. And if that's the case then I don't see where it would be in the oil industry's interest to be proactive in keeping the PPB down from their suppliers.

Am I missing something, perhaps being too simplistic? I can't claim to know the first thing about that business beyond how to put their product in my car.
Posts: 14,765
RJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliRJ 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.