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Old 07-06-2007, 01:13 PM  
Boyceofsummer Boyceofsummer is offline
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"IMPUNITY" The King has no clothes!

Court dismisses lawsuit on spying program By Andrea Hopkins
2 hours, 1 minute ago



A U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday a lawsuit challenging the domestic spying program created by President George W. Bush after the September 11 attacks must be dismissed, in a decision based on narrow technical grounds.

The appeals court panel ruled by a 2-1 vote that the groups and individuals who brought the lawsuit, led by the American Civil Liberties Union, did not have the legal right to bring the challenge in the first place.

The surveillance program was authorized by Bush to monitor the international phone calls and e-mails of U.S. citizens, without first obtaining a court warrant. A lower court had ruled in August 2006 that the program was unconstitutional.

The Bush administration appealed, and the appeals court in Cincinnati set aside the decision.

The appeals court did not decide the merits of the lawsuit challenging the program as illegal and unconstitutional. It just held that the plaintiffs did not have standing or the legal right to sue.

The ACLU plaintiffs included lawyers who said they could not defend clients accused of terrorism because the government, under the wiretapping program, could listen into attorney-client conversations.

But the two judges in the majority opinion said the plaintiffs had failed to prove they were under surveillance.

"The plaintiffs allege that they have a 'well founded belief' that their overseas contacts are likely targets of the (National Security Agency) and that their conversations are being intercepted. The plaintiffs have no evidence, however, that the NSA has actually intercepted (or will actually intercept) any of their conversations," Judge Alice Batchelder said in the ruling.

IMPUNITY

ACLU lawyer Melissa Goodman said the decision effectively protects the wiretapping program from any judicial review.

"The Bush administration is basically left free to violate an act of Congress with impunity -- the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which Congress adopted over 30 years ago to prevent the executive from engaging in precisely this kind of unchecked surveillance," Goodman said.

"They are effectively saying you can't show that you've been wiretapped and you'll never be able to show that you've been wiretapped because the whole thing is so secret."

ACLU officials said they are reviewing all legal options, including appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court.

White House spokesman Tony Fratto said the administration was pleased by the ruling. "The court of appeals properly determined that the plaintiffs had failed to show their claims were entitled to review in federal court," he said.

In the previous ruling, a U.S. district judge in Detroit ruled the program violated the Constitution and a 1978 law prohibiting surveillance of U.S. citizens on U.S. soil without the approval of the special surveillance court.

The two judges in the majority, Julia Smith Gibbons and Batchelder, are Republican appointees, named by Bush and his father, respectively.

Judge Ronald Lee Gilman, appointed by President Bill Clinton, a Democrat, dissented. Gilman said he would uphold the ruling last year on the grounds that the program violated the 1978 law.

The surveillance program caused a political uproar among Democrats and some Republicans, as well as civil rights activists. The Bush administration abandoned the program in January, putting it under court review.

(Additional reporting by James Vicini and Matt Spetalnick in in Washington)

(Editing by David Wiessler; Reuters Messaging: andrea.hopkins.reuters.com@reuters.net; +1 513 699 0045; andrea.hopkins@reuters.com))



Copyright 2007 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:17 PM   #2
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nice, go get 'em - oh and while you're at it, make sure to listen in on all the boring details of the usual everyday citizens; I am sure it's really going to hurt people, you know - the gub'ment listenin to the usual daily bullshit of normal folks talk. I'm sure the Feds are really interested in boyce, meme, banyon, penchiefs and JAZ's everyday activities.

I hope they continue to nail dipshits for plotting against the USA, too bad you people just don't get it
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:22 PM   #3
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So, in other words, the judicial branch has affirmed that the executive branch is operating within its powers, despite the fact that the legislative branch would like to intervene?

Let the ruckus procede, then, by all means.
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chagrin
nice, go get 'em - oh and while you're at it, make sure to listen in on all the boring details of the usual everyday citizens; I am sure it's really going to hurt people, you know - the gub'ment listenin to the usual daily bullshit of normal folks talk. I'm sure the Feds are really interested in boyce, meme, banyon, penchiefs and JAZ's everyday activities.

I hope they continue to nail dipshits for plotting against the USA, too bad you people just don't get it
AGREED!
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chagrin
nice, go get 'em - oh and while you're at it, make sure to listen in on all the boring details of the usual everyday citizens; I am sure it's really going to hurt people, you know - the gub'ment listenin to the usual daily bullshit of normal folks talk. I'm sure the Feds are really interested in boyce, meme, banyon, penchiefs and JAZ's everyday activities.

I hope they continue to nail dipshits for plotting against the USA, too bad you people just don't get it
You seem to keep missing the point. They can target whoever they want without justification. That means they can freely target political opponents, lawyers, or anybody that stands in their way. And if they never have to reveal their tactics or what information they cull, they are basically omnipotent.

Say goodbye to the liberty you profess to love so much.

Too bad you just don't get it.
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco
So, in other words, the judicial branch has affirmed that the executive branch is operating within its powers, despite the fact that the legislative branch would like to intervene?

Let the ruckus procede, then, by all means.
Actually, no. That's not what happened.
The judicial branch said 'there's no one before us who can prove standing to complain, so we're not going to affirm or refute a hypothetical.'
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penchief
You seem to keep missing the point. They can target whoever they want without justification. That means they can freely target political opponents, lawyers, or anybody that stands in their way. And if they never have to reveal their tactics or what information they cull, they are basically omnipotent.

Say goodbye to the liberty you profess to love so much.

Too bad you just don't get it.
No, they can't.
Targeting individuals in a manner that results in effible harm gives those individuals standing, which no one has proven yet.
And if they never reveal their tactics or what information they cull, they're absolutely IMPOTENT, outside of creating a database of utterly useless information.
That's what I think you miss. The provision is self-policing. Any abuse resulting in tangible damage to someone not deserving of scrutiny is going to ruin the whole thing. And any abuse resulting in no tangible damage is just a tree falling in the woods.
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chagrin
nice, go get 'em - oh and while you're at it, make sure to listen in on all the boring details of the usual everyday citizens; I am sure it's really going to hurt people, you know - the gub'ment listenin to the usual daily bullshit of normal folks talk. I'm sure the Feds are really interested in boyce, meme, banyon, penchiefs and JAZ's everyday activities.

I hope they continue to nail dipshits for plotting against the USA, too bad you people just don't get it


Amen Brother...
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penchief
You seem to keep missing the point. They can target whoever they want without justification. That means they can freely target political opponents, lawyers, or anybody that stands in their way. And if they never have to reveal their tactics or what information they cull, they are basically omnipotent.

Say goodbye to the liberty you profess to love so much.

Too bad you just don't get it.

You mean like the way Hillary was tapping phones of the Bimbo's Billary was scoring with in the 90's or the way FBI records showed up on the Clinton's coffee table in the LIVING room.
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:04 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco
So, in other words, the judicial branch has affirmed that the executive branch is operating within its powers....
That's not at all what the ruling says. It says that these people can't sue because they can't prove that they have grounds for a suit because they can't get to the records to show that they were spied upon. It's sort of a catch 22... which is no vindication for the WH by any stretch.
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco
So, in other words, the judicial branch has affirmed that the executive branch is operating within its powers, despite the fact that the legislative branch would like to intervene?
No, the court said nothing about whether or not the executive branch was operating within its powers, it said that the people bringing the suit weren't legally entitled to.
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:30 PM   #12
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You mean like the way Hillary was tapping phones of the Bimbo's Billary was scoring with in the 90's or the way FBI records showed up on the Clinton's coffee table in the LIVING room.
Wow. Just Wow.

This is not a partisan issue. The problem is that there is no oversight, no governmental transparency, and zero accountability. Self-policing? Give me a break.

These guys have yet to find a regulation that suits them. The problem is not that these mechanisms don't exist. The problem is that we have an administration that has zero respect for those mechanisms. They only want absolute power. And people like you are willing to give it to them freely while babbling on about 'Billary'.
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:30 PM   #13
Boyceofsummer Boyceofsummer is offline
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Hypocrisy 101.....................................

by the time the enablers 'get-it' it will be too late. We have most likely passed the point of no return.
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Boyceofsummer
by the time the enablers 'get-it' it will be too late. We have most likely passed the point of no return.
I've often thought so, too.
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:35 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by penchief
Self-policing? Give me a break.
The depth and breadth your analytical acumen continues to stun me.
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