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Old 07-20-2007, 12:48 PM  
Cochise Cochise is offline
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Defense undersecretary blows up Hillary

PENTAGON: HILL IS HELPING FOE
By IAN BISHOP Post Correspondent

July 20, 2007 -- WASHINGTON - The Pentagon yesterday launched a blistering attack on Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for boosting "enemy propaganda" by demanding the U.S. military whip up plans for withdrawal from Iraq.

The forceful pummeling - in response to Clinton's request that the Defense Department "prepare plans for the phased redeployment" - came in a terse letter to the Democratic presidential front-runner from Defense Undersecretary Eric Edelman.

"Premature and public discussion of the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq reinforces enemy propaganda that the United States will abandon its allies in Iraq, much as we are perceived to have done in Vietnam, Lebanon and Somalia," Edelman wrote in the July 16 letter.

"Such talk understandably unnerves the very same Iraqi allies we are asking to assume enormous personal risks," he added.

Clinton, who voted in favor of the war in 2002, has been calling for the pullout of combat troops as she ratchets her anti-war rhetoric to woo liberal voters who make up the core of the Democratic Party.

In May, she called on Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Peter Pace to design plans for an orderly withdrawal of U.S. troops and their equipment to avoid "the failure to adequately plan for the conflict."

In addition to the formal request, Clinton urged Pace in a private meeting to make a blueprint for the complex withdrawal - a plan she insisted was necessary, given congressional Democrats' increasing efforts to end the war.

"Any military operation requires contingency planning so that the military and our troops are prepared if the current plan is unsuccessful. It would be irresponsible not to engage in similar planning in Iraq," she said.

Edelman's stinging rebuke is surprising, given that Clinton is a rising member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, which has oversight of the Pentagon.

Clinton's Senate spokesman Philippe Reines said Edelman's letter was "at once outrageous and dangerous," and added that Clinton planned to respond directly to his boss, Secretary of Defense Gates.

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Old 07-20-2007, 02:30 PM   #2
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Hillary is a conniving Gunt whose lust for power is only exceeded by her overwelming desire to turn the US into a socialist shithole where everyone is entitled to everything but what your getting isn't worth a shite anymore because the people who provide it aren't getting paid by the free market.
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Old 07-20-2007, 02:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefaRoo
Hillary is a conniving Gunt whose lust for power is only exceeded by her overwelming desire to turn the US into a socialist shithole where everyone is entitled to everything but what your getting isn't worth a shite anymore because the people who provide it aren't getting paid by the free market.
Thank you for derailing my thread with this drivel.
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Old 07-20-2007, 02:40 PM   #4
ChiefaRoo ChiefaRoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise
Thank you for derailing my thread with this drivel.
Your welcome.
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Old 07-20-2007, 02:52 PM   #5
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If the Iraqi's aren't ready to provide a secure country for themselves and if they aren't willing to stand up and rebuild their nation by now, they never will. It is time we start a systematic with drawl.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Dog
If the Iraqi's aren't ready to provide a secure country for themselves and if they aren't willing to stand up and rebuild their nation by now, they never will. It is time we start a systematic with drawl.

That's where I'm at. Leave a residual force to protect the training cadres and act as a quick reaction force, but IMO it's up to the Iraqi's to decide if they want to fight and die to keep the nation we've given them.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:14 PM   #7
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I just hope that this message board is still around if we ever have to go back and finish the job in Iraq, to remove the Al Queda puppet regime that will install itself in a matter of weeks when we inevitably cut and run.

It would appear that no lessons were learned on not 'finishing the job' as it were in Gulf War 1. We should have driven all the way through Baghdad and done all this in 1991. We could have removed Saddam, and established a democratic regime at a time when Al Queda was in its infancy.

Instead, we bowed to legislators who didn't have the stomach to do what needed to be done, and little more than 10 years later, a task many times larger and more difficult waited for us, and we were opposed by a global terrorist organization fighting us with everything they are worth.

Neglecting the genocide that will follow as soon as we leave... I wonder if around 2015-2020, we'll be going back yet again, and if that time we'll have the good sense to finish it once and for all.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise
I just hope that this message board is still around if we ever have to go back and finish the job in Iraq, to remove the Al Queda puppet regime that will install itself in a matter of weeks when we inevitably cut and run.

It would appear that no lessons were learned on not 'finishing the job' as it were in Gulf War 1. We should have driven all the way through Baghdad and done all this in 1991. We could have removed Saddam, and established a democratic regime at a time when Al Queda was in its infancy.

Instead, we bowed to legislators who didn't have the stomach to do what needed to be done, and little more than 10 years later, a task many times larger and more difficult waited for us, and we were opposed by a global terrorist organization fighting us with everything they are worth.

Neglecting the genocide that will follow as soon as we leave... I wonder if around 2015-2020, we'll be going back yet again, and if that time we'll have the good sense to finish it once and for all.
My guess is one strongman will show up (like they usually do) and rule, or it will devolve into it's pre-1920's state of being several different regions.

Cochise, I know what you are saying, but it's been made pretty clear that they are not interested in bleeding to defend the democracy we've given them. Given that, and an inability to make them interested, self interest suggests to me we GTFU (within the limits I've previously stated).

You may be willing to assume a decades-long commitment waiting around for them to come around. I'm not.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise
I just hope that this message board is still around if we ever have to go back and finish the job in Iraq, to remove the Al Queda puppet regime that will install itself in a matter of weeks when we inevitably cut and run.

It would appear that no lessons were learned on not 'finishing the job' as it were in Gulf War 1. We should have driven all the way through Baghdad and done all this in 1991. We could have removed Saddam, and established a democratic regime at a time when Al Queda was in its infancy.

Instead, we bowed to legislators who didn't have the stomach to do what needed to be done, and little more than 10 years later, a task many times larger and more difficult waited for us, and we were opposed by a global terrorist organization fighting us with everything they are worth.

Neglecting the genocide that will follow as soon as we leave... I wonder if around 2015-2020, we'll be going back yet again, and if that time we'll have the good sense to finish it once and for all.
No Bush Sr admin never should have given SH the green light to invade Kuwait.
Second mistake was creating permanent bases in SA. If none of these things had been done, and we just used ships in the Gulf as we did before there'd be no 9/11.

That being done, going all the way to Baghdad back in 1991 would likely have had the same results we're getting today. The reason we didn't then is exactly for what you see happening now. This was predicted exactly per Brent Scowcroft, Bush Sr's Nat'l Security Advisor, in 1991. It would have to be occupied which would be a bloody, long time and expensive proposition.

We were better off with SH as an ally in the region as he was the buffer between Iran and the rest of the ME. He may have been a thug but he was a petty one. Unfortunately, those people are used to such leaders....just look at them. Now we have thousands of SHs running loose and a new franchise for AQ.

The lesson that should be learned is intervention that has nothing to do with our national defense is always a mistake. It brought terror home to our mainland. Not only that but I read nuclear secrets have been smuggled out of Tenn here in the US. So much for preventing terrorists from getting nukes.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept Havelock
My guess is one strongman will show up (like they usually do) and rule, or it will devolve into it's pre-1920's state of being several different regions.
I agree with this. And there is really nothing wrong with that either.
Problem is the oil rich regions that cut out the Sunni. Need a revenue sharing agreement on the oil to make it work imo.

Quote:
You may be willing to assume a decades-long commitment waiting around for them to come around. I'm not.
It's not gonna ever happen so we might as well go now. It won't be any different then.

BTW I read Turkey has dropped bombs on Kurdistan already for it's terrorism inside Turkey. The Kurds want all their original land back including parts in Iran. It never ends.
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise
I just hope that this message board is still around if we ever have to go back and finish the job in Iraq, to remove the Al Queda puppet regime that will install itself in a matter of weeks when we inevitably cut and run.


Actually, the war games that they've run on this scenario counter the idea the Al Qaeda would take over. In fact, the war games show that a withdrawl would even weaken Iran, as they would be drug into a Shiite civil conflict that might spill into their own borders.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...raqexit18.html
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
No Bush Sr admin never should have given SH the green light to invade Kuwait.
Second mistake was creating permanent bases in SA. If none of these things had been done, and we just used ships in the Gulf as we did before there'd be no 9/11.

That being done, going all the way to Baghdad back in 1991 would likely have had the same results we're getting today. The reason we didn't then is exactly for what you see happening now. This was predicted exactly per Brent Scowcroft, Bush Sr's Nat'l Security Advisor, in 1991. It would have to be occupied which would be a bloody, long time and expensive proposition.

We were better off with SH as an ally in the region as he was the buffer between Iran and the rest of the ME. He may have been a thug but he was a petty one. Unfortunately, those people are used to such leaders....just look at them. Now we have thousands of SHs running loose and a new franchise for AQ.

The lesson that should be learned is intervention that has nothing to do with our national defense is always a mistake. It brought terror home to our mainland. Not only that but I read nuclear secrets have been smuggled out of Tenn here in the US. So much for preventing terrorists from getting nukes.
You said it. Those are all excellent points.
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Old 07-20-2007, 07:00 PM   #13
Logical Logical is offline
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So a lackey for the Bush administration pulls a publicity stunt and Cochise buys it hook line and sinker. What a shock.
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Old 07-20-2007, 07:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept Havelock
That's where I'm at. Leave a residual force to protect the training cadres and act as a quick reaction force, but IMO it's up to the Iraqi's to decide if they want to fight and die to keep the nation we've given them.
Amen sanity is spreading and pretty much everyone realizes this now. Except for the delusional administration and a small cadre of residual supporters.
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Old 07-20-2007, 07:49 PM   #15
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Amen sanity is spreading and pretty much everyone realizes this now. Except for the delusional administration and a small cadre of residual supporters.
Present and accounted for.
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