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Old 08-21-2007, 11:37 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Hillary losing the base?

Hillary's War

Posted August 21, 2007

Hillary Clinton addressed a group of veterans in Kansas City yesterday and proclaimed that "we've begun to change tactics in Iraq," and those changed tactics are "working." "We're just years too late in our tactics," she lamented.

(Note: The first report I read, on Huffington Post and from the New York Post, quoted Hillary as saying "the surge" is working. Now that I have seen the full speech, I can quote her exactly. "We've begun to change tactics" . . . But what else is she talking about except George W. Bush's Hail Mary surge? What other "new tactics" have we begun to try? The surge is the story. She was, of course, talking about the surge. Arguing about how she characterized it misses the essential and crucial point. It obfuscates, as in Karl Obfuscate Rove, which is exactly what every Republican argument is meant to do.)

What does Hillary mean by "working"? How is the surge working? What is it accomplishing? What is it meant to accomplish? What, in the war gospel according to Hillary, is the goal of the surge? Is it the same goal she had in mind when she voted to allow Bush to go to war in Iraq if he wanted to? Is her only regret now that our "tactics" were flawed, i. e., we did not send enough Americans to accomplish whatever the Bush/Clinton goal is right from start?

I suspect all she meant to do in Kansas City yesterday was pander a little to the Vets, be enough of the Hillary they want to get some of their votes, you know. But her declaration that the surge is "working" and that we're just "years too late in our tactics" goes beyond standard politician-pander to reveal something terribly wrong in her thinking. She has given us a glimpse beneath the mask -- there's the real Hillary. Years too late in our tactics? How many more Americans and Iraqis should have died under her leadership, with her superior tactics, to achieve her unspecified goal ("victory"?)? Does she think the American people have turned against this unwinnable, unconstitutional, criminal war only because Bush didn't surge from the beginning?

I have been thinking I would feel compelled to vote for Hillary if the Democrats nominated her because that would be the only meaningful way to cast a vote against the horrifying, entirely and eternally discredited Republican party.

I'm not sure now how meaningful that vote would really be. And I don't think I'm going to be able to do it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-...r_b_61291.html
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:38 PM   #2
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Here are a few comments following the article for amusement...

recessdawn (See profile | I'm a fan of recessdawn)
That makes two of us.
Log in | posted 02:03 pm on 08/21/2007


snaggster (See profile | I'm a fan of snaggster)
And a whole lot of others. I really think we need a woman for president, but I won't be voting for her. I don't care who the other choices are. Not voting for war mongers.
Log in | Parent | posted 02:59 pm on 08/21/2007


ikebona (See profile | I'm a fan of ikebona)
Le the real Hillary stand up.
Authorized the war, then became an anti-war candidate, then opposed timetable for withrawal before supporting timetable for withrawal. Now she says the surge is working?

This is the dumbest presidential candidate ever. No judgment whatsoever. Has she been tricked again like with her vote to authorize the war?

wTime for a woman President? Yes. But we need the right one, not this one. I'll take Michelle Obama anytime.
Log in | Parent | posted 05:19 pm on 08/21/2007


ReasonIsMyReligion (See profile | I'm a fan of ReasonIsMyReligion)
What we COULD have done years ago is make deals with the Sunnis and their militias -- formerly known prior to rebranding as our sworn enemy, the pro-Saddam pro-Baath Insurgents -- so that they could defend their people from Shiite murderers, some even wearing Police and Army uniforms by night and reporting to PM al-Maliki and his patrones by day.

There are no winners here. Hillary doesn't seem to get that; she's a survivor, programmed to avoid losing. Different.

Hillary is prepping the US public for her pending inheritance of the war. Hardly the moral high ground.
Log in | Parent | posted 05:36 pm on 08/21/2007


Stevelagain (See profile | I'm a fan of Stevelagain)
Hillary knows exactly what she's doing. She knows the election in 08 will be about who is best able to wage war on terrorists.

What you are seeing is your front-runners moving away form the radical left and toward the middle in preparation for the primary and the actual election. Thus you hear Hillary and Obama talking about staying in Iraq to avoid collapsing the region (pulling out slowly) and fighting terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As I said in another post, that giant sucking sound you hear is your front runners leaving the room and moving to the middle, now!

Where does Hillary and Obama really stand? Who knows. No one.
Log in | Parent | posted 07:17 pm on 08/21/2007


lucid (See profile | I'm a fan of lucid)
Yup it is working as intended. The war profiteers are make lots and lots of money.
Log in | Parent | posted 08:15 pm on 08/21/2007


ReasonIsMyReligion (See profile | I'm a fan of ReasonIsMyReligion)
Steve,

You mean the radical left that is sync with 75% of the country? Time to redefine terms.

Snarks aside, who wins in '08 has less to do with waging war on terrorism than:
a) extricating from Iraq -- which will REDUCE the anti-US antigonism that instigates terrorists; and
b) coming to the aid of the middle class -- terrorized by then 7 years of Repuke rule and autocratic shenanigans.

Agreed re Hillary and Obama's true colors. Shades of blue, regardless.
Log in | Parent | posted 08:58 pm on 08/21/2007


AxelDC (See profile | I'm a fan of AxelDC)
Since when does the "Radical Left" include 2/3 of Americans? It's only the Fringe Right, and NeoCon Dems like Hillary and Lieberman, who support this war.

It takes a lot of chutzpah to call a 2-1 majority the "Radical Left".
Log in | Parent | posted 11:17 pm on 08/21/2007


WIpatriot (See profile | I'm a fan of WIpatriot)
Why not...51% is a MANDATE.
Log in | Parent | posted 12:17 am on 08/22/2007


Duky (See profile | I'm a fan of Duky)
And who cares? There are other candicates out there who support a get out now policy, John Edwards for example. He, at least, is a "real progressive" and will not be led around by the DLC. I just don't understand why people are giving her all the airspace. Let's move on.
Log in | Parent | posted 11:58 pm on 08/21/2007


splastershoes (See profile | I'm a fan of splastershoes)
Steve may have said "radical left" when, in fact, 2/3 of the American populace opposes the war. However, he has a point in saying that she is pandering towards the middle now. Hillary knows that she has enough people in the middle and the entire spectrum of the right against her. She's trying to gain at least a few of the swing voters of the conservatives. Yet, in doing so, she is also abandoning the demands of TWO THIRDS of the nation. While pandering to conservatives, she's rapidly losing votes from the middle voters who are anti-war. She sold out. Middle voters might have POSSIBLY forgiven her corporate-backing history, but they won't forgive her for maneuvering on such a pivotal topic as the war in Iraq.
Log in | Parent | posted 12:14 am on 08/22/2007
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:07 AM   #3
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MSNBC, _NY Post_, Drudge falsely claimed Clinton said "surge" is "working"

Media Matters for America

During an August 20 speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) said, according to The New York Times in an August 21 article, "We've begun to change tactics in Iraq, and in some areas, particularly in Al Anbar Province, it's working. ... We're just years too late changing our tactics. We can't ever let that happen again." The Times also reported that "[a]ides to Mrs. Clinton said her remarks that military tactics in Iraq are 'working' referred specifically to reports of increased cooperation from Sunnis leading to greater success against insurgents in Al Anbar Province." Several other media outlets, however, have claimed that Clinton said the Bush administration's so-called "surge" policy is "working":

During an August 21 report on Democrats' positions on Iraq, an MSNBC Live on-air graphic read: "Hillary Clinton: Surge is Working, But Years Too Late For Change" -- even though the video clip of Clinton MSNBC aired during the segment itself showed her saying: "We've begun to change tactics in Iraq, and in some places -- particularly in Al Anbar Province -- it's working."

In an August 21 article -- headlined, "Iraq Surge Working, But Too Late: Hillary Clinton" -- the New York Post reported: " 'It's working. We're just years too late in our tactics,' [Clinton] said, referring to the beefed-up U.S. troop presence battling insurgents in Iraq, including war-torn Anbar province." The Post further asserted that "Clinton's positive assessment of the troop surge puts her in agreement with some high-ranking military officials and scholars, but in direct opposition to many fellow Democrats." But Clinton did not give a "positive assessment of the troop surge," and her statement was not in reference to "Iraq, including the war-torn Anbar province"; rather, she cited Al Anbar as one place where the "change [of] tactics" has brought positive results.
On August 21, a banner headline on the Drudge Report read: "Hillary on Surge? 'It's Working' ..."

A headline on the website JustHillary.com read: "At veterans' convention, HRC says surge working but bring troops home..."
The Associated Press paraphrased Clinton's statement in an August 21 report on her speech, reporting: "New military tactics in Iraq are working but the best way to honor U.S. soldiers is 'by beginning to bring them home,' Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton told war veterans Monday." Clinton, however, did not refer specifically to the "surge" policy, and the AP story cropped Clinton's quote to suggest that she was speaking more broadly.

On August 21, The Washington Times reported: " 'It's working,' Mrs. Clinton said of the troop surge yesterday in a speech at the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention in Kansas City, Mo., a group at odds with her votes for a pullout and against emergency troop funding."
As Tim Grieve noted on Salon's War Room blog, even The New York Times, which, as Grieve wrote, "quotes Clinton more fairly than the Washington Times does" reported that Clinton's remarks were "notable because Mrs. Clinton has been a consistent critic of the Bush administration's troop escalation in Iraq, and Republican presidential candidates have been seizing on signs of progress in Al Anbar Province in arguing against a troop withdrawal."

http://blog.radioleft.com/blog/_arch...1/3173538.html
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Duck
MSNBC, _NY Post_, Drudge falsely claimed Clinton said "surge" is "working"


No, she said it... Media matters is trying to obfuscate (and losing credibility in the process).




She's having to do a lot of mincing of words right now. It probably wont matter. Come October 08, she's going to be sounding like the blood-thirstiest hawk there ever was, trying to out-hawk Rudy or Romney.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:19 AM   #5
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Hillary isn't the only liberal saying the surge is working, for what it's worth. Durbin said the same thing on one of the sunday news shows, and there have been a couple of others. The talking point is different, now, it's about the political side. In fact, to me the fact that some Democrats have started to flip on it is the strongest evidence that it is working.

At any rate, of course what she was doing was pandering. That's why she develops a southern accent on random campaign stops or sounds like the leader of a soul church chior at others.

But all of it I think is academic... she's still leading and that hasn't changed since the start, basically. None of this behavior seems to be hurting her.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise
None of this behavior seems to be hurting her.
It's not going to help when she's representing the party.......
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:01 AM   #7
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She continues to demonstrate saavy...shes appealing to disaffected moderates on both sides and looks unstopable against the clowns the republicans have out there. Sad day for America if she or any demo gets in
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:31 AM   #8
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Hillary appealing to moderates? WoW! It really is a bizarro world when she's advancing the same agenda just with modifications.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBK
It's not going to help when she's representing the party.......
On the contrary, I think that Hillary has had the benefit of starting her general election campaign early. Without anyone polling within 15 points of her or so, she's free to simply concentrate on reinventing herself and rehabilitating her image with those outside the Democratic party.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:42 AM   #10
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I read those polls on Hill are wrong. USA today claims she's actually in a dead heat with Obama.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:44 AM   #11
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Like it or not, the facts bear out that she is doing a fantasic job of shedding her far left image and has media over and over propping her up on the more moderate stands and positions...we may know iy=ts a scam or hate her to her core but bottom line is she is doing a number on the republicans who cannot come up with a plan to get anyone elected and Bush is killing us...sorry but its real...I dread the day shes elected
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise
On the contrary, I think that Hillary has had the benefit of starting her general election campaign early. Without anyone polling within 15 points of her or so, she's free to simply concentrate on reinventing herself and rehabilitating her image with those outside the Democratic party.
I agree completely.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:14 AM   #13
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And to expand upon what I said about how she's got the benefit of starting the general election campaign early, as evidence for that: do you see her out there attacking the other Democratic candidates...? I can't think of when she has recently. Is she sending her spouse out on the attack like Edwards and Obama have done recently?

She's not doing anything like that. Bill is out there smiling, and raising money, cracking jokes, looking like a likeable guy. They aren't going to try to come off as some steely politician couple, shooting venom at others. She wants her campaign to look like the Sopranos spoof that she did. Like they are jokers, they have fun, like she's a good-natured female corporate executive and he's a retiree who'd offer you a nice cigar on the golf course and slap your back when he told you a joke.

Contrast that with Obama's wife taking shots at their home life, or Edwards running his wife out with policy, yelling about how people want to shut him up, saying Hillary isn't a real woman and he'd be better for women than she would...

The smartest thing she is doing right now is that she is acting like someone who doesn't to this point have any serious competition. The Clinton machine knows how to win elections if it knows anything, and in this case, they have a good strategy. She's going to continue to try to look presidential and ignore the others.

When Obama spoke about sitting down for tea with Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hillary blasted him saying that you don't grant those people legitimacy, you don't bring them up to your level and treat them as equals. She's employing the same policy. Don't fight with them, don't engage in feuds, because in voters minds it will drag you down to their level. She's doing the right thing, tactically, which is to not be pestered and just ignore them.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
Hillary appealing to moderates? WoW! It really is a bizarro world when she's advancing the same agenda just with modifications.

I kind of wondered the same thing... If there's one thing she's NOT doing, it's appealing to moderates. Some people just say stuff because they think it makes them sound smart, I think.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:33 AM   #15
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Denial among Republicans is an art form....like it or not the reconstruction of Hillary is moving forward in a more centrist manner
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