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Old 10-07-2007, 09:13 PM  
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:47 AM   #7111
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Ooh.Ladies and gentlemen, our first pedigree of the new era...Actually I think it's hilarious it was him. I may be the only guy on the internet that thinks Ryder is a joke.
I'm not going to claim to be a Ryder connoisseur, because he didn't start developing his non-Major Bros/Edgeheads character until just after I stopped paying attention or thereabouts, but I think it's charming that he so clearly derives so much joy from being in the ring, even to job.

He seems like he has potential, but at the same time I just really love his enthusiasm no matter the circumstances. It's adorable.
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Old 08-03-2011, 03:33 PM   #7112
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I think with me, I just absolutely hate his character.

The enthusiasm is a nice change, though, and I do sort of admire the internet niche he's created for himself.
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Old 08-03-2011, 05:36 PM   #7113
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I think with me, I just absolutely hate his character.

The enthusiasm is a nice change, though, and I do sort of admire the internet niche he's created for himself.
I like him because he clearly doesn't take himself too seriously in a business that's run by politics and ass-kissing.

That said, it won't kill me if they don't give him much time. But I do enjoy watching him when he's on TV (and I think his YouTube stuff is pretty funny, too).
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:33 AM   #7114
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Very discouraging discussion on last night's Wrestling Observer Radio for people who want Cena to ever turn heel. According to Meltzer, there are people high up in WWE heavily against the Cena/Rock match at Wrestlemania next year, because they think it will be counterproductive to the current long term goal with Cena - to get him over as a babyface with males. They're afraid that Cena will be viewed as the heel in the feud regardless of what Rock does, so for months leading up to Wrestlemana and then that night in Miami, he's going to be booed. And they, of course, want Cena to be the face carrying the company for the rest of the year after Mania, since Rock will be gone.

This is not set in stone obviously, and they really can't see a way out of the feud, so it will probably happen anyway, the main point here is their long-term goal with Cena. Which I think is enlightening as far as his role in the current feud is. That would certainly explain why he's (illogically....) mirroring so much of what Punk says, because they want to get him over with the fans cheering Punk...

Which is never, ever going to happen. There's no way in hell they're ever going to get Cena over with hardcores....
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:37 AM   #7115
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On what I think is a slightly more positive note, Mick Foley is probably coming back to WWE in September, to start building a Wrestlemania program with...somebody. He supposedly wants his kids to be able to see him in one really big match, where he's a star, and that isn't going to happen in TNA...

(I'm big on new stars, but I've always found Foley to be really entertaining)
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:48 AM   #7116
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Very discouraging discussion on last night's Wrestling Observer Radio for people who want Cena to ever turn heel. According to Meltzer, there are people high up in WWE heavily against the Cena/Rock match at Wrestlemania next year, because they think it will be counterproductive to the current long term goal with Cena - to get him over as a babyface with males. They're afraid that Cena will be viewed as the heel in the feud regardless of what Rock does, so for months leading up to Wrestlemana and then that night in Miami, he's going to be booed. And they, of course, want Cena to be the face carrying the company for the rest of the year after Mania, since Rock will be gone.

This is not set in stone obviously, and they really can't see a way out of the feud, so it will probably happen anyway, the main point here is their long-term goal with Cena. Which I think is enlightening as far as his role in the current feud is. That would certainly explain why he's (illogically....) mirroring so much of what Punk says, because they want to get him over with the fans cheering Punk...

Which is never, ever going to happen. There's no way in hell they're ever going to get Cena over with hardcores....
They just don't want to kill the short-term cash cow that Cena is selling merch to kids. I watched a great show on WWE On Demand about the NWO that had Kevin Nash along with JR, Michael Hayes, JJ Dillon and Mean Gene talking about how it all came about. Where this relates to Cena is that in the months leading up to Hogan's turn, he was starting to get booed in spots because people were just tired/bored with his character, which is a pretty good comparison to Cena now. Another interesting factoid is that they originally wanted Sting in the Hogan role but he didn't want to turn heel.
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:40 PM   #7117
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Cut day in WWE apparently. Gail Kim (well, she asked for hers), Melina, Kozlov, DH Smith and Chris Masters so far.

Might be some news on Money in the Bank buyrate this afternoon.

And Danielson has a new theme song on smackdown tonight. Which of course Cole buries immediately. But it might work better than Ride of the Valkyries.

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Old 08-05-2011, 01:59 PM   #7118
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Very discouraging discussion on last night's Wrestling Observer Radio for people who want Cena to ever turn heel. According to Meltzer, there are people high up in WWE heavily against the Cena/Rock match at Wrestlemania next year, because they think it will be counterproductive to the current long term goal with Cena - to get him over as a babyface with males. They're afraid that Cena will be viewed as the heel in the feud regardless of what Rock does, so for months leading up to Wrestlemana and then that night in Miami, he's going to be booed. And they, of course, want Cena to be the face carrying the company for the rest of the year after Mania, since Rock will be gone.

This is not set in stone obviously, and they really can't see a way out of the feud, so it will probably happen anyway, the main point here is their long-term goal with Cena. Which I think is enlightening as far as his role in the current feud is. That would certainly explain why he's (illogically....) mirroring so much of what Punk says, because they want to get him over with the fans cheering Punk...

Which is never, ever going to happen. There's no way in hell they're ever going to get Cena over with hardcores....

Can't say I'm surprised. They announce a huge match with 1 year's notice (which is like 10 years in real life) and 6 months later, they're not happy with it.

As for Cena getting over with males, age 18-45, good luck. Ironically, they may be able to get us to cheer for him if they turn him heel, which would in turn kill the kids' love of him. And we're never going to love him as much as the kids do....

Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
On what I think is a slightly more positive note, Mick Foley is probably coming back to WWE in September, to start building a Wrestlemania program with...somebody. He supposedly wants his kids to be able to see him in one really big match, where he's a star, and that isn't going to happen in TNA...

(I'm big on new stars, but I've always found Foley to be really entertaining)
Love me some Foley. Can see him taking someone who's almost at the ME level and putting them over the top (think Edge at WM22). Del Rio?

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Cut day in WWE apparently. Gail Kim (well, she asked for hers), Melina, Kozlov, DH Smith and Chris Masters so far.

Might be some news on Money in the Bank buyrate this afternoon.

And Danielson has a new theme song on smackdown tonight. Which of course Cole buries immediately. But it might work better than Ride of the Valkyries.

Wondered why they ever re-hired Masters, anyway. Dude sucked hardcore the first time, what would have changed?...

And I'm glad they gave D-Bry a new theme, maybe they're actually committed to developing his character and giving him some meaningful time before letting him cash in the MitB case.
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:06 PM   #7119
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And I'm glad they gave D-Bry a new theme, maybe they're actually committed to developing his character and giving him some meaningful time before letting him cash in the MitB case.
I'm just terrified they're setting him up for some kind of match where he puts the case up against Barrett and he loses, and then Barrett cashes in for the title later.

I'm not sure that wouldn't be wayyy worse than being the first guy to lose his cash-in (if that cash in really is at wrestlemania - if he cashes in early and loses...disaster).

He apparently has a good match with Tyson Kidd on SD tonight (I'm literally watching 5 minutes of SD every week right now - whatever Bryan's doing) which he wins, so they're building him up to something. Love to see him get a long winning streak, but the way Cole incessantly buries him is not going to help build him with the audience.

Speaking of Kidd, who'da thunk that he'd be the survivor of the tag team with DH Smith. WWE keeps the talented but small performer over the dull 2nd generation big guy. That's actually a shocker.

Sin Cara is back Tuesday, so his suspension only lasted 3 weeks.

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Old 08-07-2011, 12:52 PM   #7120
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So I was reading a wrestling board discussing Punk-Cena, and of course, everyone thinks Punk needs to go over in some fashion. But one poster throws the theory out there that Punk needs to lose in order to develop this angle/character. He's now the "voice of the voiceless" and the "underdog," and all of a sudden he has Cena's number? Like the Royals (underdog: Punk) just started beating the Yankees (dynasty: Cena) all the time?

I've said it earlier that I would be OK with Punk losing, as long as they have something planned for the long-term with him, but would trust creative a lot more if they let him go over Cena. But with the way his new shirt's (supposedly) selling and how interested people are getting in him, maybe he's cemented himself as a permanant fixture in the main event (or at least I hope so).

I guess what I'm saying is: as long as there's something more planned for this angle, I'm OK with Punk losing to Cena at SS. Or am I totally off my rocker and Punk HAS to go over for credibility's sake? Thoughts?
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:37 PM   #7121
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So I was reading a wrestling board discussing Punk-Cena, and of course, everyone thinks Punk needs to go over in some fashion. But one poster throws the theory out there that Punk needs to lose in order to develop this angle/character. He's now the "voice of the voiceless" and the "underdog," and all of a sudden he has Cena's number? Like the Royals (underdog: Punk) just started beating the Yankees (dynasty: Cena) all the time?

I've said it earlier that I would be OK with Punk losing, as long as they have something planned for the long-term with him, but would trust creative a lot more if they let him go over Cena. But with the way his new shirt's (supposedly) selling and how interested people are getting in him, maybe he's cemented himself as a permanant fixture in the main event (or at least I hope so).

I guess what I'm saying is: as long as there's something more planned for this angle, I'm OK with Punk losing to Cena at SS. Or am I totally off my rocker and Punk HAS to go over for credibility's sake? Thoughts?
Punk can lose, but it can't be clean.

The baseball analogy is way off, I feel. Punk isn't the Royals in that he hasn't sucked for years. His claim is that he's the "Best in the World" (which is precisely what that hot-selling new shirt says), and has been for years; he just hasn't been given the chance. Him not living up to that billing now that he has the chance could kill the entire angle.
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:38 PM   #7122
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:54 PM   #7123
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Punk can lose, but it can't be clean.

The baseball analogy is way off, I feel. Punk isn't the Royals in that he hasn't sucked for years. His claim is that he's the "Best in the World" (which is precisely what that hot-selling new shirt says), and has been for years; he just hasn't been given the chance. Him not living up to that billing now that he has the chance could kill the entire angle.
Fair enough, but he did lose every PPV match he had from June 2010 to June 2011 if I remember correctly.

And I'm pretty much with you on the "clean win" thing. Likely needs to be some controversy to keep the thing going. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them try to force ADR into the title picture...
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:16 PM   #7124
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:39 PM   #7125
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Seeing a report on last night's Raw house show makes me start to brainstorm possibilities for where this angle could go:
Quote:
CM Punk and John Cena went to a no contest when Dolph Ziggler and Alberto Del Rio got involved. Punk hit GTS on Ziggler and Cena hit AA on Del Rio.

After clearing ring Punk said its not a popularity vontest its about who is the best. At SummerSlam hell ptove hes the best in the world.
They've been going to that same no contest all the time on house shows, and it probably doesn't mean anything, but I do think Punk's comment is a possible direction to take them. There may actually be a way to keep them both face. They're feuding because Punk is the best Wrestler, whereas Cena is the most popular Entertainer. So keep the focus there. Do some kind of a screwjob finish at Summerfest, maybe involve Johnny Ace again when it looks like Punk is going to win, where he's the better Man, but the "Company" can't let that happen. Maybe this time, Cena doesn't stop it? Maybe this time Alberto successfully cashes in. Something that screws Punk and puts even more of the audience behind him (I think there's still a large percentage that doesn't 'get' that he's a face now, both because him winning is still such a new thing, and because his turn was such a sudden, and IMO unintentional thing).

I really wish HHH had not gone with the "overrated" thing about Punk last week, because that I think hurts selling the idea (to the children and female and mouth-breathing segments of the audience) that he's the "best in the world". But go that route, where he should be the champion based on what's happened in the ring, but he's not. Which doesn't necessarily mean the Title is on Cena.

Anyway, that's one possible finish. I'll try to come up with more.
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