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Old 12-06-2007, 06:23 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Bannister Mall: the new home of the Wizards. Watch KC screw this up.

KC will screw this up. They had Bass Pro ready to go in abut they didn't want to give them TIF. Just what tax revenue are they getting now from that area? It's a wasteland.

http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/391605.html

Funkhouser opposes Super TIF for Bannister Mall redevelopment


By KEVIN COLLISON
The Kansas City Star Kansas City Mayor Mark Funkhouser said Wednesday that he opposed extraordinary tax breaks to help the Bannister Mall area redevelopment plan — incentives that backers say are vital for success.“It’s a wonderful project. I’m ready to sign off,” Funkhouser said at a development forum where he made a public appearance early in the day. “But I can’t stomach 23 years of Super TIF.”

Funkhouser later elaborated in a statement saying that while he was “excited” about the prospect of redeveloping the vacant mall property in south Kansas City, he wouldn’t support the $43.5 million in Super Tax Increment Financing being requested as part of the package to help finance the development.
Under Super TIF, all rather than just part of the local taxes generated by a project are diverted to help defray eligible costs.

The ambitious Three Trails redevelopment proposal, valued at almost $1 billion when fully built over 10 years, calls for a mixed-use development anchored by a new stadium for the Wizards professional soccer team. It would include a 12-field tournament-style soccer complex; a 250-room hotel; 609,000 square feet of retail space; and 610,500 square feet of office space.

The developers are seeking $273.3 million through a variety of local and state tax incentives to help finance the project.

“I want to see the Three Trails redevelopment happen,” Funkhouser said. “But I don’t intend to support the current plan without more thorough discussion and, at least, the removal of the Super TIF requirement, which redirects 100 percent of any new property, sales and earnings taxes back to the project.”

The development group backing the project, which includes top executives of Cerner Corp. and Lane4 Property Group, contends that Super TIF is needed to fill a financial gap for the project.

It remains unclear what effect Funkhouser’s position with have on the development group’s pursuit of the project at the Bannister Mall site. The developers have sought a decision by the Kansas City Council by the end of December to meet a construction timetable that calls for the soccer stadium to be open by spring 2010.
Project backers, who have considered alternative sites elsewhere in the area, could not be reached for comment after Funkhouser’s statement.

Besides the use of Super TIF, Funkhouser also objects to the plan’s provision that the city own the soccer stadium, saying it would require long-term expense and attention.

“The construction of the city-owned Sprint Center required a new tax and public vote, yet we are considering this plan with neither,” Funkhouser said in his statement. “I want to be sure we have thought through that decision and its fiscal impact on the city.”
The mayor’s announcement threw a new twist into a discussion that already had gotten off to a poor start earlier in the day.

At a meeting of the council’s Finance and Audit Committee, at which dozens of people testified, most favored the project. But Chairwoman Deb Hermann postponed a recommendation on the project after becoming frustrated by widely differing economic impact estimates submitted to her panel.

The city’s Finance Department issued an analysis indicating that the city would have a $41 million negative impact over the 23-year life of the project’s proposed financing. An analysis by the Economic Development Corp., in contrast, indicated a $45 million net benefit over the same period.
Both groups use different ways of evaluating the economics, and Hermann decided to seek additional time to sort out the issue.

Her committee has one more meeting scheduled before the end of the year.

“You just can’t give me a scenario with an $86 million swing,” Hermann said. “I’m not a financial expert. That’s why we have a Finance Department.”

Further complicating matters, Councilman John Sharp, a strong supporter of the Three Trails project, said Funkhouser had received a letter from state officials stating that any state aid for the project was contingent on the city’s granting the Super TIF assistance.

The project seeks $20.7 million in state tax-increment financing and $10 million in state tax credits.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:21 PM   #61
Sully Sully is offline
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The upscale crowd won't want anything to do with this part of town.

--signed,
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If you build it, they will come.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:22 PM   #62
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sully
--signed,
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If you build it, they will come.
Exactly. Give them a reason to come, and they will come.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:33 PM   #63
jiveturkey jiveturkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully
--signed,
Kansas City, Kansas


If you build it, they will come.
You're comparing a field far from the crime ridden parts of KCK to a crime ridden part of KCMO that's chased off the upscale crowds once before.

They can't keep the Banister area crime free. They've tried and they failed.

I don't see the point of revitalizing every shit hole corner of the city. There's plenty of other areas that can accommodate a soccer stadium.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:38 PM   #64
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I grew up in the area.
I don't think it's nearly as bad as you believe it is.
It's not great, but it's not "Judgment Night," either.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:45 PM   #65
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Soccer's ****in retarded anyways, I could give 2 shits less if they moved.

Soccer will NEVER be popular in America, period.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:02 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully
I grew up in the area.
I don't think it's nearly as bad as you believe it is.
It's not great, but it's not "Judgment Night," either.

I've got family there. It's far from what it was, but it's not a DMZ like some are making it out to be.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:09 PM   #67
stanleychief stanleychief is offline
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Originally Posted by Sully
I grew up in the area.
I don't think it's nearly as bad as you believe it is.
It's not great, but it's not "Judgment Night," either.
There's a study out there that backs you up.

Crime statistics of area shopping centers

I think the area has more than its share of unsavory characters, but I think the danger was mostly imagined and not real when the mall started to decline. A strictly enforced 'No Loitering' law would have done wonders to prevent the downfall of the mall, but unfortunately the city didn't see it as a priority I guess. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned if this area does get a second chance.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:15 PM   #68
stanleychief stanleychief is offline
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They did and it failed.

It's a wasteland. If Walmart can't survive a soccer stadium sure as shit won't.
I'm not sure what Walmart you are referring to exactly. The only Walmart in that immediate area was a Hypermart and that was in place long before the decline of the mall.

Walmart pulled a fast one on the city some time ago and actually built a new Walmart out where Blue Ridge Mall used to be. They promised to bring new jobs to that part of town when in reality, the just shut down the Hypermart and transferred the workers.

Maybe you were thinking of Blue Ridge Mall?
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:38 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by stanleychief
There's a study out there that backs you up.

Crime statistics of area shopping centers

I think the area has more than its share of unsavory characters, but I think the danger was mostly imagined and not real when the mall started to decline. A strictly enforced 'No Loitering' law would have done wonders to prevent the downfall of the mall, but unfortunately the city didn't see it as a priority I guess. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned if this area does get a second chance.
The Traditional enclosed types of malls are a dying breed anyways because of exactly what happened to Bannister Mall. (Haven for teens, thugs, unsavory characters, etc)

All the new shopping Meccas being built these days are all open air.
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Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

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Old 12-06-2007, 09:44 PM   #70
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If I recall the new soccer stadiums they build now have a concert stage built in and they play high school football in it as well.
The stadiums owned by AEG have stages built-in, which was a sticking point with Red Bull and why they're going to build Red Bull Park without any interference from AEG.

And yeah, soccer-specific stadiums often host other events around the year. Concerts, the X-Games (in LA), and high school football playoffs (in Dallas), specifically.

Maybe with a stadium that's not way too big for a crowd of 15,000, KC can generate an atmosphere like this rather than being one of the most depressing places to watch a game in the league. Section 8 did a good job at Soldier Field before Toyota Park was built, and DC fans do an amazing job at RFK, but those are definitely exceptions.



That being said, Portland's Timbers Army is ****ing amazing for a USL-1 side:

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Old 12-07-2007, 04:59 AM   #71
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Originally Posted by Phobia
I've been to a Wizards game - took all 3 of my daughters. I was moderately entertained but not enough to spend money to watch. Thankfully the tickets were free. I somewhat understand the draw of larger sports and why they qualify for tax breaks but what is for all intents and purposes a fledgling league shouldn't be able to bend our city over backwards for a stadium. That's ridiculous. How many soccer leagues have flopped in this country? I'm totally against any plan that gives soccer a free pass to tax benefits at this juncture.
The problem you have is with the system. Yeah, the developers should do this on their own without tax breaks but that isn't the way the system works. And little ole KC with no cards on the table is going to force a change in the system?

The Fledgling soccer league folds 5 years from now doesn't matter to us does it? How much tax $'s are the taxpayers out? Zero. Nada. $0.00

WYCO has proved the concept if you build it they will come. If you can safely get JOCO soccer mom's and their daughters to come downtown at night to see Hanna Montana you can get them to come to a soccer complex right off the interstate.

The taxpayers are not putting any money into the deal Zero. Nada. $0.00.They are only allowing any future tax revenue to be put back into the infrastucture around the complex.

We can't afford to lose that future tax revenue is total BS. Without the TIF the project is dead. We are not giving up any future tax revenue because there is no project and the project goes down the road to the next city just like the Bass Pro Shop, Nascar, Legends etc.

BTW, I lived for 10 years behind Bannister Mall down 87th street. Hypermart was our grocery store etc. We saw the deteroiation coming just like everyone else and moved out to the burbs. I hate seeing the area like it is now.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:50 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief
The Fledgling soccer league folds 5 years from now doesn't matter to us does it?
It's been around for over a decade and revenues are steadily going up and new teams are being added. I don't think it's going to be folding any time soon.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:54 AM   #73
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Originally Posted by Silock
It's been around for over a decade and revenues are steadily going up and new teams are being added. I don't think it's going to be folding any time soon.
I don't think so either. Phil was the one who said it might.
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Originally Posted by Bufkin View Post
If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:48 PM   #74
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I don't think so either. Phil was the one who said it might.
Yeah, I know. I was just expanding on your point
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:41 PM   #75
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Freaking Tax breaks...who ends up paying? Taxpayers...amazing. Im with the Funk. If its a viable business it wont need tax breaks.
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